Assassination in Iraq

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• RAY SUAREZ:

  Dexter Filkins, welcome. Earlier in the broadcast we reported on the killing of a member of the Iraqi governing council. How are they protected? Who was providing security for these men and women?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Well, I mean, in a large way, it's the Americans. The Americans are the occupation. They're the government here. They're supposed to and certainly the Iraqis and the Iraqi officials look to them to …look to the Americans to provide security here, but when often in the case, for example, of Mr. Izzadine, it was his family members, it was his cousins and his brothers. The Americans offer training and evasive driving and firearm training and that sort of thing to people who are providing security for the governing council. And they did in this case. But in this case, apparently, the cousins and the brothers didn't take it, so I mean, that's the long answer and the short answer.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Talk a little bit about the area where this attack occurred. He was pretty close to being in a secure area, wasn't he?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  It was right at the doorstep of the green zone, which is the of the green zone, which is the American-controlled area, right in a lane where you drive up to have your vehicle searched to go inside. So the impression that you get from something like this is really… is that the guys who did this could have done this just about anywhere, but they chose this place for its symbolic value. I mean, they did it right under the Americans' noses.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Were you aware of any attempts by the governing council members to be more security-conscious after the killing of the last member?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Well, when the last member was killed, I mean, that was many months ago. Security then was– I mean, the whole city really– it was a different world then. It was a dangerous place, but nothing the way it is now. I mean, I should say, this city is much more dangerous now than it was when the first member was killed — my gosh, how long ago was that — eight months ago. The city is much more dangerous now, but even the security for the governing council members is also much better. It's just… that's how dangerous this city is. I mean, everybody has to move around. And these are very busy guys. They go from… they go to meetings all over town. And every time they get in their car and they move around they're vulnerable. There's only so much you can do. I mean, I mentioned Mr. Izzadine's security detail, how it wasn't trained. I mean, honestly, I don't think there's anything they could have done today. I mean, this was a suicide bomber that drove his car right up next to Mr. Izzadine's and exploded on him. I mean, how do you protect yourself against that? It's really difficult.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Are people working on the assumption that he was the target of an attack because he held the rotating presidency of the council, or is this a man who would have had many enemies under any circumstances?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Well, that's a good question. The short answer is "I don't know." But Mr. Izzadine was… he was an interesting guy; he was a good man. But he wasn't one of the more prominent people on the council. He had the post that he had by virtue of the fact that it's just a rotating job. It was basically his month. Now it's anybody's guess. Did they pick him because it was his month and they wanted to kill the president? Or… I suppose it's possible that there was some kind of vendetta going on, but I think the former is much more likely. I mean, they went after this guy because he was the head of the council.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  And what have other council members had to say in reaction?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Well, some of them, as you can imagine… well, most of them are very shaken. I talked to a couple of them today. But some of them are quite angry. I'm thinking of one council member in particular, Ahmed Chalabi, who was saying that the American plan to provide security here has failed. He was very blunt about it. I think they're very nervous. I mean, I go and see these guys a lot. And I have to say that you go to their houses, and usually there's a guy or two out front with a Kalashnikov, you know, a couple of guys standing around, but, you know, what can you do in a situation like this? I mean, it's an unfortunate fact of life that it's, you know, a lot easier to kick a barn down than it is to build one. And these guys that are doing this, are just, they're kicking everything down.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Dexter, in the time that we have left, maybe we could turn to the announcement of the discovery of what might be a sarin-laced shell. When was that found?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  That was found in Baghdad. It was found by a convoy of American soldiers that were just, you know, just driving around, thought they had spotted a homemade bomb. You know, there's homemade bombs here that hit convoys every day. When they tried to disarm it, it didn't explode, but this is a binary artillery shell so it has two inert chemicals, and when they mix together it becomes deadly. And apparently, just a trace of these chemicals kind of mixed together when they were trying to disarm it. A couple of the soldiers received sort of slight poisoning. So it was found in Baghdad. And it looks like it was full of sarin gas. It looks like it was an old shell, probably before 1991, and, you know, if you remember, after the Gulf War Saddam Hussein declared that he had destroyed all of his nerve agents. Well, you know, sarin is nasty stuff. He had used it against the Kurds in 1988 and used it against the Iranians. And, I mean, this is at least one shell that looks to be the real thing.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Would this make the first time since the U.S. invasion of Iraq that word like this has been borne out and a weapon like this has been found?

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Yeah, I think this is the first real evidence that Mr. Hussein didn't destroy everything that he said he did.

• RAY SUAREZ:

  Dexter Filkins of the New York Times, thanks for being with us.

• DEXTER FILKINS:

  Thank you.