Comments on: Mainline Protestants and Same-Sex Marriage

By: Erik

Erik — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:44:07 +0000

Darlene(#19), marriage is a privilege, not a right. There are plenty of heterosexual people that are single that haven’t been married, so don’t claim marriage as a right. It is not.

By: Daniel Kennedy

Daniel Kennedy — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:27:08 +0000

@robroy

So you’re attributing the declining membership in the UCC due to the inclusion of GLBTs? Or that the UCC is accepting GLBTs into their church to “save” the church from obscurity? Both stances mean absolutely nothing in regards as to what is expected of we Christians.

In fact, one might look at a church’s popularity (or lack thereof) as a barometer to the adherence of the teachings of Jesus, for:

Matthew 7:13,14

“13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

Accepting GLBTs into full membership into the church is hardly taking the popular route – take a good look around.

You may twist Pauline theology anyway you wish, but Jesus Christ has made his commands for us quite clear.

Matthew 7:12

“So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”

Verses take from the NIV.

By: Charles Winkelman

Charles Winkelman — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:58:55 +0000

Darlene (#19), this New Testament? Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.

By: Darlene Wilcox

Darlene Wilcox — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:46:54 +0000

Au contraire, Kevin sweetie, (#14) I KNOW my lesbian marriage is right, and it’s a basic civil right. As a voting American to love anyone I pick is also fundamental to my persuit of happiness. I know the bible as well. Most especially Jesus would not throw a stone at our love, or tell me I’d be better off in the kitchen with Martha instead of listening to his words like Mary M. did. Love God, he said, and I do, and I’m happier and challenged for it. Jesus would have us clothe and feed the poor, minister to the sick and wash each other’s feet…rather than judge each other. We’ve got so much to do to bring heaven here on earth. Maybe as my neighbor you think you’re following the golden rule by sharing your honest opinion…and I thank you for the part of what you say that is a sincere desirean honest exchange. But dude, get with the new testament! The old laws forbid all sorts of things I bet you judges way less harshly…and I guarentee you yourself nor I follow most of them, which is just fine. But remember God is still speaking and we (my right lesbian christian self as well as your straight conservative self) are made in god’s image.

By: omd

omd — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:30:50 +0000

Jesus did tell us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Yes, even homosexual humans deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. They should not be subjected to physical violence. ALL people should have a resonable expectation of the same. We are all sinners and the Bible teaches that the “wages of sin is death”. There are no secret escape plans outlined in the Bible. There is only one way. “No one comes tho the Father except through me” is what Jesus. “I am the way, the truth and the life” Jesus also says.

Jesus did not tell us to affirm sin. Jesus did not affirm a sinners sin. After encounters with sinners Jesus would tell them to “go and sin no more”

We all have the ability to change. When we come to Jesus and ask Him to enter our lives we are taught that we “Become new creatures in Christ.”

Homosexual sexual behavior is a sin and the Christian church should not be affirming that behavior.

By: Fred

Fred — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:51:40 +0000

In response to Kevin #14: If your argument was followed to it’s logical conclusion, then the Levitical laws regarding not eating shellfish (as much of an “abomination” as homosexuality, so no more clams, lobster and scallops for you), not wearing clothes with two different kinds of fabrics (cotton and polyester blends are clearly a no no!) and how to treat your slaves (the Scripture clearly says it’s okay to have them, so do you own any?) would still be in force. Oh, and polygamy and marriages between close siblings (remember how Abraham married his half-sister) would be allowed. Are you for that? Jesus was the fullest manifestation of God and God’s will for the world, and Jesus clearly said we are not to judge others and need to take the beam out of our own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else’s.

By: Rev. R. Biddle

Rev. R. Biddle — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:56:59 +0000

Religion and laws regading marriage need to separated. Currently in many states, a minister must be licensed by the state to perform a marriage. This means that a minister is an agent of that state. This is not a separation of church and state.

Many couples want a church wedding because of the beauty of the setting rather than for religious reasons. In many European countries, marriages are performed by the state and a religious cermony is optional. If that were the case in tHE USA this whole deliema might be put to rest.

It is the perogative of every church, or clergy person, to perform or not perform any marriage. Making marriage legal for same gender couples would not change that. A minister still would be able to refuse to perfom a marriage of two men or two woman, just as he or she can of a straight couple who does not meet the requirements of that church or clergy person.

By: CLP

CLP — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:35:58 +0000

I agree with B.Leverenz, any reading of Scripture must be done in context taking into account the writer, the norms and mores of the day, the philosophical teachings of the culture and the level of scientific knowledge.

For example, Christ was adamently against divorce, but even the Catholic church allows it today. Paul said for slaves to be obedient to their masters, but we are struggling to end slavery across the world. God punished Onan not for spilling his seed on the ground but because he would not honor his commitment to Tamar. If God ordained one man and one woman as marriage, then even the fathers of our faith were critically in the wrong – and even yet God proclaimed them faithful. As thoughtful Christians, we live everyday with these tensions. There are no easy ways to explain why Abraham is considered faithful but not Perrault and Crane. God does not call us to check our intellect at the doors of His Church.

God’s standards are the same as always – we are to live in a loving relationship with Him and with each other. This is at the heart of Christ’s teachings.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:20:28 +0000

Only read this if you consider yourself a Christian and believer in what the Bible says:

Do you seriously think that God’s standards have changed just because the words were written down thousands of years ago?

C’mon, all kidding aside, do you really think that no matter how you live your life that God will just “accept you for what you are and how you act”? That somehow you’re saying ‘I was born this way and that’s just the way I am’ somehow resolves you of responsibility?

Fact: God does not lower his standards to meet yours. Not now, not ever.

If he did, then he would never have had to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.

If he did, then he would have written the 10 Suggestions; not the 10 Commandments.

No matter how much we wish the Ford Focus we are driving was actually a Rolls Royce, no matter what we may think, no matter how much ‘outside the box thinking’ we may entertain; your Ford is still a Ford. You cannot change that.

Likewise, no matter how much you think that gay marriage (or heck, just the gay lifestyle in general) is ok, no matter what your Clergy may tell you or how they ‘reason on the mater’ , no matter how much sympathy you get from your friends; it has always been, and will always be wrong, and you know it.

How about this for a new Gay Marriage campaign; “We Know it’s wrong, but so what!”

At the very least you *might* get some respect for your honesty if nothing else.

-Kevin

By: Robert E. Leverenz

Robert E. Leverenz — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:42:00 +0000

If one subjects the reality of marriage equity to the issue of same-gender marriage after subjecting it to what we United Methodist call the quadrilateral (reason, scripture, experience and tradition) to discern “truth”; in my opinion refusal to grant the legitimacy of marriage to same-gender couples cannot be defended…. It is a non issue and in the past I have officiated at same-gender marriage and will continue to do so as a United Methodist Pastor. In all the discussion on this subject I don’t believe I ever hear about the genetic origin of homosexual orientation, and rarely is the critical approach to scripture brought in to the mix. So much of the scripture is time bound and culturally informed in the pre-scientific mindset, pre-medical understanding of human sexuality.
To the opponents of marriage equity I say in the light of enlightened analysis, history is NOT on your side. Bob Leverenz, United Methodist Pastor