LORIE CREPEAU (Director of Faith Formation, St. Edna’s Church): My name is Lorie Crepeau. I’m the director of faith formation here.
JUDY VALENTE, correspondent: These parishioners at St. Edna’s Church in suburban Chicago got a crash course on the changes in the Catholic Mass.
CREPEAU: I don’t want you to think of this as, “Oh great, come Advent I’m going to walk into church and the communion rail’s going to be back and ladies are going to have to wear Kleenex on their head and oh me, oh my.” That is not what is happening here.
VALENTE: What has happened is that the words to some of the prayers and music these people have known for the past 40 years have changed. It’s the most significant retooling of the Mass since 1973, when it went from Latin to English.
CREPEAU: We wanted to make it simple for the people to understand, so we didn’t stay true to the actual Latin translation. We wanted to find words that people felt comfortable with. Well, now you’re comfortable. Forty years later you’re comfortable. Now we’re going to try to make you uncomfortable by going back to where it should have been, alright?
VALENTE: The Vatican says the Mass is now more authentic, more accurately reflecting the meaning of the original Latin.
ARCHDIOCESAN DVD: Will the changing of this frequently used dialogue be easy? Certainly not.
CREPEAU: In the current translation we say that “I have sinned through my own fault.” Now I’m going to say, “I have greatly sinned,” but then they want to reinforce this, obviously, because now they’ve added “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault,” and you say, “I get it! It’s my fault! I get it!”
VALENTE: Some of the changes don’t fall trippingly off the tongue. In the Creed, for example, the part about Jesus being one with the Father becomes “consubstantial with the Father.”
CREPEAU: It is a $50 word. Now imagine a third-grader trying to do this, because third grade is where they teach the creed.
ARCHDIOCESAN DVD: “Dominus vobiscum,” and the response, “Et cum spiritu tuo,” presently translated as: “The Lord be with you.” “And also with you.”
VALENTE: “And also with you” becomes “and with your spirit.” Other changes are more extensive.
ARCHDIOCESAN DVD: Indeed, as you can see, the entire hymn is reimagined and restructured…
VALENTE: For priests, the Mass becomes quite different.
ARCHDIOCESAN DVD: The new translations of the Roman Missal involve a new way of speaking for the priest at Mass.
VALENTE: But many priests are not happy with the changes. They’ve criticized the new translation as archaic, ugly — even wrong.
REV. LARRY JANOWSKI: I haven’t met a priest yet who feels that this is a good thing, that this is an improvement in the liturgy.
VALENTE: Father Larry Janowski is a Franciscan priest in the Chicago diocese who objects to the literal translation of words from the original Latin.
JANOWSKI: From what I’ve seen they’re like sawdust in the mouth. They’re difficult to say.
VALENTE: For example, this prayer:
JANOWSKI: (reading) “Therefore, Lord, we pray, graciously accept this oblation of our service, that of your whole family, which we make to you also for those to whom you have been pleased to give the new birth of water and the Holy Spirit, granting them forgiveness of all their sins. Order our days in your peace and commend that we be delivered from eternal damnation and counted among the flock of those you have chosen.” That’s quite a mouthful.
VALENTE: Janowski was so concerned that he wrote a letter to Chicago’s Cardinal Francis George, which said in part:
JANOWSKI: (reading from letter) English has the greatest vocabulary of any living language on earth, yet the prescription is that we not only adhere to a stiff, ugly, nonvernacular translation, but actually delights in convoluted sentence structure and anachronistic language, and then calls it reverence.
VALENTE: The retranslation process began in the 1980s with a group of theologians working in concert with linguists, writers, even poets. But the Vatican rejected that translation and instead decided to rewrite the entire Roman Missal or prayer book, of which the Mass is only a part.
REV. EDWARD FOLEY: Then, in 2000, Pope John Paul II announced there would be a new missal, and if there was going to be a new missal you had to start the entire translation process all over again. So it began again.
VALENTE: Father Edward Foley is a professor of liturgy and music.
FOLEY: I think the most problematic part of the whole thing has been the process. I think it was much more secretive than the previous translation process. We knew who the translators were in the previous process. Here, we did not.
VALENTE: In an open letter to the US bishops, Father Anthony Ruff, a liturgist who had been heavily involved in the new translation, refused to promote it, saying “The Holy See allowed a small group to hijack the translation at the final stage, how unsatisfactory the final text is….how much deception and mischief have marked this process—and then when I think of our Lord’s teachings on service and love and unity…I weep.”
Eucharistic Prayer: “When supper was ended, he took the cup…”
VALENTE: The consecration is the holiest part of the Mass. Even a small change here—from the word “all” to the word “many”—has proven controversial.
Eucharistic Prayer: “He gave the cup to his disciples and said, take this all of you and drink from it. This is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven.”
JANOWSKI: Our understanding of the sacrifice of Christ in the world today is that it is for all people, and to say “for many” is a very difficult thing for a priest to even get out. I know priests who say it violates their conscience to say that.
THERESA WATKINS (Parishioner): Change is always hard. So I think there will be some pushback from some people, especially because we’ve been doing it for so long.
KATHY KEMNETZ (Parishioner): I think they’re good, I think they’re good. Some will take getting used to.
ERNIE KEMNETZ (Parishioner): I lived through Vatican II and all of that change, and that was something else, and like she was saying, there were a number of pastors who were not fully involved. They fought it.
VALENTE: Despite the controversy, the Mass remains the heart of their faith to most Catholics.
CREPEAU: Remember, the Eucharist is who we are. It is everything that we do. It’s the center of what we are, and everything else comes out from that.
FOLEY: The Roman Catholic Church is not a democracy, and we do have a pope and we do have bishops, and they are the arbiters. The Mass does not belong to me. The liturgy belongs to, the Mass belongs to the church, and I have been called to be an official representative of the church, and it’s not for me to change. It’s for me to do it as effectively and as well as possible.
VALENTE: In a statement, the US bishops said there is “an openness and readiness to receive the new text.” Some priests clearly aren’t ready yet.
JANOWSKI: At some point, I will be required to teach the congregation about what is coming, and I cannot lie to the people. I cannot pretend to be enthusiastic about a translation that I don’t believe in. I will say what needs to be said, but I will have to say to those people whom I love that my heart isn’t in it, and I dread saying that.
VALENTE: But for now, it seems, Catholics will have to learn to live with the changes, whether they like them or not.
For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, this is Judy Valente in Chicago.
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Here is why people are leaving the Church….because there is no attempt to be relevant. They aren’t being heard and the Church is more worried about people being faithful to the Church rather than being faithful to the Gospel. The one thing the Church has going for it and takes advantage of daily is the idea of Catholic obligation or simply put Catholic guilt. They have brainwashed generations of people in believing that the popes and bishops are always right and the people in the pew are cattle and are always wrong….Latin good…the people’s language bad. Piety good-social justice (one of the primary things Jesus preached about) bad. Just read through the creed and try and tell me how the new one is more “mystical” or more “meaningful.” Consubstantial? Seriously? This is better and easier to understand? They tell us this is closer to the Latin…I don’t care about Latin anymore….no one speaks it. Isn’t about time we moved on and simply deal with the way people speak? Is it really that important that the USA translation is as close to the Latin as the translation in Nigeria? The reason people are leaving is because they are searching for a Church where they are respected, listened to and looking for a community where they are more interested in the Gospel instead of saving their own phoney baloney jobs. I would love the holy father to slap an interdict on our mouths also…that would be the final act of a desperate church trying to be relevant and meaningful in a world that no longer is interested in being treated like children and talked down to. It won’t be long before the church will get what it wants…a small group of people all telling each other how great and holy they are…all playing dress up for each other in weird irrelevant get ups while the Gospel and Holy Spirit pours out on people who are open to it and care.
I learned my faith by heart – As a 3 yr old participating in Holy Traditional Latin Masses in Poland,observing priests solemnly adoring the Real Eucharistic Presence of Christ in the Tabernacle there was no need of translating Latin,for I absorbed it naturally and nobody had to explain to me the meaning of ” Dominum Vobiscum!” and ” Et cum spiritu tuo” ,o priests, it was. Bob O -thanks for pointing it out : it is all about reverence for Christ expressed in prayerfullness and solemnity not only of the faithful,but first and foremost the priests celebrating the Holy Mysteries themselves. Adam,Annie,Chris Reynard,Joanne – Raul is right, ” they LEFT and no longer walked after Him” ,only consider the fact they did it saying ” This is hard saying,who could accept such a thing” in the spirit of the Original Antichrist,the Lucifer himself,who thought himself so sophisticated he assumed he is equal to God and as such does not have treat Him with revereance.
I learned my faith by heart -as a three year old participating in Holy Traditional Latin Masses in Poland with priests worshiping at the feet of the Altar,adoring the Real Presence,grown men moved to tears having received His Body ,kneeling,there was no need for translation,nobody had to explain to me :” Dominum Vobiscum! ” and ” Et cum spiritu tio”,o priests,it was. Faith comes by hearing.I never read the Bible before coming to US ,yet I knew the Living Word so well that when I could instantly catch up on all the modernists innovations aimed at doing away with the Real Presence and alarmed the Holy Father about it in my first letters to him in 1998 and 1999. October 7 th 2000 having witnessed open apostasy and heresies preached during Intnl Eucharistic Congress in Washington,D.C. and not one Paul to correct “the erring Peter” I alarmed Rome.Annie,Adam,Helen,Chris Reynard,Joanne – Raul is right on :” they left and no longer walked after Him” … murmuring :”this is hard saying,who could accept such a thing!”
I can’t get over the comments I’ve been reading from those who want to keep the Mass in English even though it does not translate correctly from the Latin. They talk about Priests, Bishops and the Pope as if they are just your average Joe who happens to wear a black suit all the time. They forget that the priest is the Persona Christe during the Mass and not just one of your co-workers. They talk about the Latin being shoved down their throats. What about 1963 when English was pushed down the throats of the faithful who have been attending the Latin Mass for centuries. Now all of a sudden, Wow 40 years! As if that could compare to throwing the Latin Mass out after hundreds of years. We all had to learn new prayers for the entire Mass.
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have gotten thousands of letters from the faithful telling them about the lack of reverence not only in the English Mass itself but of the people and how they act in Church. When the Latin went out so did reverence, the sense of sacredness and respect. People attend Sunday Mass in shorts rather than wearing a respectful outfit in God’s house. (You wouldn’t dress that way if you were going to meet the Queen of England would you?) They leave the church with the Host still in their mouths. And the music and architecture is almost blasphemous. Pope Benedict recently spoke about the barrenness of the new churches and the old ones where all the statues, stations of the cross, and crucifixes and altar rails have been ripped out.
And talk about a “group of people” hijacking the wording of the Mass, what do you think ICEL did when they rewrote not only the Mass but the Bible as well. “All generations will call me blessed” was rewritten “All generations will call me happy”. Really??? “Hail Mary, full of grace” became “Highly favored daughter”. We’re all highly favored daughters! It was all to bring Jesus, Mary and all the saints down to our level. Jesus was no longer God, he was our friend, our buddy. Add to that everyone can handle the Holy Eucharist. Everyone up on the stage and get into the act. Lay extraordinary ministers, lay readers, lay people bringing the Host to the sick, teenagers strumming their guitars and bouncing to the music on the altar. Music so loud you can’t hear yourself pray.
Is that what you all consider to be a better Mass! Learning a little Latin will not kill anyone. I understood the Latin Mass as a child. I could say the Latin responses along with the altar boys. Don’t tell me you are so dumb you can’t learn a few Latin phrases.
People left the Church in droves because it was not giving them what they need — a sense of worship. They weren’t hearing about their Catholic religion from the pulpit anymore (just nice stories about caring and kindness and social issues). Their priests were not speaking about the Sacraments, sin, purgatory or hell. They don’t want to offend anyone anymore and they don’t want to lose the money. Children for the last 40 years have not been taught the Catholic faith. People under 40 and all their children don’t even know enough to genuflect. Why should they when even the priests don’t, a nod of the head to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is sufficient, after all he’s just our friend.
Every opportunity to make the Catholic Church more like the Protestant Churches was taken advantage of in the name of Ecumenism. Did the Protestant Churches do anything to bring the churches together? Did they install statues of the saints or Holy Water fountains? Did the replace the empty cross with crucifixes? Do they now pray to Mary? Looks like it was a one way street and we came out on the wrong side.
So much for changes in the church.
Patricia — Amen!!! You hit the nail squarely on the head in every instance and I thank you.
Xavier Rynne posted: “Sad…again we have a small group speaking for the many and telling ordinary people how to speak and pray as if they don’t know how”
I recall my scripture illustrating how Christ had to teach His disciples how to pray. I also recall scripture relating that Christ gave His power and His authority along with His spirit to those chosen Apostles. Since Christ promised to be with His church until the end of time, well, you know the deal, apostolic succession. You either embrace that Christ is speaking and working through these men or you don’t. If you don’t, then perhaps those who fall into this catagory should reflect once again, on our Lord’s great commision to His apostles, as well as the establishment of the Church.
Dear Vatican, I have two words for you: “NEW COKE.”
Patricia says it all very well. I don’t know how many people are alive today who lived through the truly BIG changes in the Mass. Talk about something hard to get used to. The problem is that the people in the pews have been dumbed down so much in the past. Now, when a few minor adjustments are being made so that the translation of the Mass is a true translation of the Latin, those who “will not obey” are up in arms. Just like the Devil would not obey, that’s all I hear.
This business about, “They can’t make us do this.” is ridiculous. How childish can you be? The door swings both ways and I’m sure those who offer only dissent will not be missed. You can leave anytime you want and leave the rest of us alone. Instead of complaining about how “the people” will be inconvenienced, we should think instead of how happy Our Lord will be that the truth is being finally professed again.
I never did like that “We believe”. I only know what I believe not what everyone else in the church believes. I like to speak for myself.
It saddens me to read postings of those in favour of the changes telling those opposed to them to accept them or leave. There is a profound spiritual arrogance in those kind of statements. It is valid and necessary to question change. As for the idea that priests and all the church heirarchy, the pope included, should be perceived as Gods repesentitives here on earth? I fear the scandals of the past twenty years, especially the sexual abuse scandals, has fundamentally diminished their moral and spiritual authority. I am an actor who has worked extensively with Shakespeare. However beautiful his language, editing and changing his words so that they may be understood by a modern audience is vital. One must balance the resonance of poetry and language with the need to make it understandable and relevant to a modern audience. I am a Catholic. I will continue to go to mass and say the new prayers, even though I absolutely agree that the language creates more barriers between the people and the ritual of the mass. I will continue to go, to pray, to celebrate in communion, because I need to. I have no choice. But for those who would be comforted by the idea that their adherence to the church and it’s teachings, an adherence which carries with it a disdain for those who have the courage to actively question the teachings of Rome- I tell you I believe your statements to exhibit the worst kind of spiritual arrogance- the kind of arrogance that allows you to judge others so easily, and ultimately calcifies your mind and spirits. One must have courage of their conviction, but always have the humility to listen and learn from others.
What is so funny, ironic, and yet hypocritical is that those who reject, protest, and deny the traditional Latin translations are the same people who would reject, protest, and deny a “modern” translation of literary classics that are written in Old English such as Shakespeare (which high school students are still required to read, interpret, and comprehend). Imagine the outrage if the hundreds of literary classics were stripped of their original text and meaning and “translated” into our modern, contemporary style of English? But yet when the Church tries to restore the translations to be more accurate to the original Latin text, modernists freak out about it. Give me a break….
It’s obvious that the posters who spew venom at the Catholic Church’s authority are no longer Catholic and they made up their mind about the Church long before the changes to the new Missal. The Church has ALWAYS been authoritarian. If you choose to disagree with their authority, more power to you, but you are no longer a Catholic. It’s okay, move on, peace be with you. Hence the thousands of protestant Christian denominations. It’s okay if you don’t want to follow the rules of the Church. But don’t be angry because the Church doesn’t cater to YOU and YOUR beliefs. It’s the one and only Christian church that still has a backbone and refuses to succumb to popular opinion. No one forces anyone to be Catholic. If you hold a different set of beliefs, God Bless you, but the least you can do is respect the Catholic Church for adhering to the foundation upon which it was built for 2000 years.
@Noreen: “This business about, “They can’t make us do this.” is ridiculous. How childish can you be? …Instead of complaining about how “the people” will be inconvenienced, we should think instead of how happy Our Lord will be that the truth is being finally professed again.”
You believe everything the Church hierarchy as told you about “truth”. I agree – how childish can you be?
In a single week, Penn State did more to right itself in the face of sexual abuse than the Catholic Church has done in ten years’ time. This is an embarrassment to ordinary Catholics and continuing evidence of profound and continuing need of clerical reform. In such a context, our highest hierarchy thinks that somehow the correct translation of “et cum spiritu tuo” is the biggest fish it has to fry. This is not only poor vision, but more is also the case. Even if we consider this as pure liturgy, the working text is not so carefully done and is not obviously a very great augmentation to our ability to pray in a suitable and useful way. We need to have a hierarchy of grownups, and we don’t have it yet. Joe Paterno did his business better than Cardinal Ratzinger, and his job is less a moral one. It seems unreasonable that His “Holiness” keeps his job and his high status.
Yes, there is always better way of doing things than we are doing. The new ROMAN MISSAL is the outcome of such. It does not necessarily mean the previous one is wrong, or less correct. This, the new one is the better translation. No one may say why to obey hierarchy. If he or she can’t obey the Church, then neither he or she can obey the Holy Spirit. ” I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church” is to be really meditated such persons.
Congratulations to those who are responsible for the work.
the truth is nothing and no one can make me leave the church but the question is what is wrong with the Vatican || ( that has taught us Grace) that the church suddenly decides to go back to the original. I see a legalistic nature in this. i know i have sinned but must i confess to it being grievous for God to forgive me the answer is no. In as much as tradition is part of the church we need not allow it overcome the Word or the leading of the Holy spirit.
P.S
This is not the time to insult or push anyone away. its time to pray for God s Grace and direction in this matter.
I’m not a Catholic, actually I’m a Buddhist (though a lover of liturgy in all faith traditions), but I teach religious studies and want to recast something in Fr. Xavier’s posting from 21 Nov: “If he or she can’t obey the Church, then neither he or she can obey the Holy Spirit. ” I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church” is to be really meditated such persons.”
I feel the need to point out that every Protestant congregation recites the Apostle’s Creed with the phrase “holy catholic church” every Sunday — note “catholic” with a little c, not a big C. Catholic in this sense means universal, as in all believers and followers of Christ, and *isn’t* understood to be a reference to the ROMAN Catholic Church specifically.
Again, I’m not making any argument about Fr. Xavier’s opinion — I don’t have a stake in this. Just pointing out the power of language and how it is understood and interpreted, which clearly is a major part of the controversy over the revised Mass.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit meet before setting off. God the Father says “So, Son, where you goin for vacation? God the Son says “I think I’ll go to Florida; I’m in the mood for some warm weather and lounging on the beach. Where you goin?” God the F says, “I think I’ll go to the Rockies. I need some cool, fresh air and beautiful scenery. Where you goin Spirit?” The Holy Spirit says, “I think I’ll go to Rome…..I’ve never been there before”. Such seriousness and vitriol. The Kingdom will only come to those who become like children: not in childishly and unthinkingly accepting Father’s pronouncements, but in their joyous, playful wisdom, their ability to be non-attached to ideas, and to live fully and joyfully in the moment. All doctrine and dogma are feeble fingers pointing to the brilliance and beauty of the moon. They are helpful signs pointing us in the right direction but don’t mistake them for God’s complete, transmitted Truth. That’s why we need powerful and moving liturgy; because words are so limited. True faith is not found in unquestioned, cognitive acceptance of doctrine and orthodox acceptance of the meaning of liturgy. It is found in the ability to say yes to the one True Mystery which is God, and which confronts us and challenges us everyday, both in church and out.; it is the ability to look at the faults and inconsistancies of the world (and our church; yes conservative Catholics, it does have them) and still be able to say yes. Three key pieces need to creatively shape and inform each other if the church has any hope of thriving and surviving: the bishops, the theologians, and the community of the faithful (the term laity is an insult). Too many of our best Catholic theologians are increasingly censored and/or bullied into silence or conformity; thus the deafening silence by bishops, theologians, and pastors regarding human sexuality, who does or does not get the Eucharist, etc. And if the teachings, rituals, and liturgies do not resonate with meaning among the the faithful (which I include myself a part of), then it will wither and die. I stay Catholic because I believe in the Spirit of God, in Christ alive here in the present, both within me, the community of faith, and the Eucharist. The Incarnation continues here and now and is not reserved for a male clergy to dole out as they see fit. Like the Pascal Mystery, there is much that is dying within the church, just as much is struggling to be born. Much of the institutional church is dying. The bishops are spending huge amounts of time and effort in preventing these things from dying. But they must if the Spirit is to be born anew. So I will stay and will keep complaining just like a good, non-clerical Catholic should.
Maybe the Catholic Church should think first about their waying thinking-their beliefs that do not join with the 21st Century-before they start changing words in their services. Their outdated beliefs are the first things that should changed.
I think the value of translations is that they get people to think more about the prayers, to engage with the texts on a different level. If you spend your entire life saying the same thing over and over, week by week, day by day, I wonder if you really hear it anymore; if you are really saying it with your heart. The Church is showing that it is trying to build on liturgy, which is a positive thing. I would guess that some of the changes might get ignored in practice, and I woudn’t be surprised if some changes revert. But others will be seemless transitions, and in the process the faithful will have the opportunity, in the uncomfortable moments when they say the “wrong” response, of being able to reflect a bit more deeply on the words they are saying.
December 8,2011 at 7:15 am
My Dear Vatican
”CONGRATULATION”
I am very happy about changed ”NEW-ROMAN-MISSAL”
i read all comments i agree what some of them said i need to tell the truth as well but i do not want publish it right now i.am praying and waiting God will answer me for surely to the next.so i hope people will change there hearts an bad behave as well meaning is Roman Latin Catholic Church here is became protestant.not all the priests some of them because of money.most of parishioners suffering i hope and praying My Dear Vatican will solve this problem as well because here we are international parishioners with local together
.” Remember the Good News that I carry, ‘Jesus Christ risen from the dead,sprung from the race of David’;it is on account of this that I have my own hardships to bear,even to being chained like a criminal-but they cannot chain up God’s news.So I bear it all for the sake of those who are chosen,so that in the end they may have the salvation that is in Christ Jesus and the eternal glory that comes with it”.(The second letter of St Paul to Timothy 2:8-15) i loves so much St Paul letters I Thank God and Thank you all my prayerful wishes May The Lord bless you and keep all of Us In Christ.Amen!
They’ve taken all the joy out of the mass. I joined the Church 40 years ago and this is NOT the church I joined. I’m looking for a new church. Sorry Fr, Xaviar but the Holy Spirit and the Catholic Church are not synonymous.