Mr. SHADID: Well, I think there is a great debate on a couple of levels among religious leaders about this intersection of religion and politics. On the one hand, they are debating over what role they should play in that government. Should it be a very active role? Or should it be more of a role as a watchdog? And I think there is also a debate on to what degree religion will define politics -- when it comes to women, when it comes to religious minorities, when it comes to what they consider morality. That debate by no means has been settled yet.

ABERNETHY: Many extremist Islamists have made it clear that they think western culture, western secular culture, is a threat to their religion and their tradition. How widespread is that idea in Iraq?

Mr. SHADID: It's interesting. When you talk to Iraqis, obviously the more pressing concerns are what you hear in conversations now -- that's electricity, the lack of basic services, the economic problems. But when you dig a little bit deeper you do hear many Iraqis, particularly more religious ones, talk about the anxiety they have over western influence -- over this question of identity and what it means to be an Iraqi, what it means to be an Arab, what it means to be a Muslim. And I think that anxiety, that unease that you see lurking beneath the surface, is probably going to become more pronounced as this occupation unfolds.

ABERNETHY: We say we want a secular democracy. Is that likely?

Mr. SHADID: It's interesting. When we watch about how politics have emerged since the fall of Saddam Hussein's government, we['ve] seen religion become much more of an issue, in some ways as a way to identify people; also as a way to express political objectives. So I think it's very difficult to see religion not playing a significant role in a future democracy. What role that religion plays is going to be the debate.

ABERNETHY: Could there be both a democracy -- that is, a freely elected government -- and one that was strongly Islamist?

Mr. SHADID: I think the people who envision that would definitely say so -- religious leaders think they are very compatible. People who are more secular in Iraq, I think, fear that there might be a certain intolerance that comes with that religion. But it's really not been something that has been tested yet. So the religious leaders think it would work very well.

ABERNETHY: Many thanks to Anthony Shadid of THE WASHINGTON POST, just back from Iraq.