Tutu and Franklin:
The Future (continue)
DR. FRANKLIN: There are some who would not wish to discuss it, but there are
large numbers who do with to discuss it, and as I have traveled about our
own country and talked with literally thousands of people, and as I have witnessed
the development of various promising practices, in small communities and in
large, I have been drawn to the position that perhaps some day we can live
as, as a peaceful, respectful, cordial group of human beings, and as I see
our development along those lines--this is a long way around--but as I see
our development along those lines, I do become cautiously optimistic
[Laughter.]
DR. FRANKLIN: What about you?
ARCHBISHOP TUTU: Yes. My own experience of our Truth and Reconciliation Commission left me with two distinct senses. The one was being overwhelmed by our capacity for evil. You know, when you heard the "horror stories," the atrocities, you really wondered, just what extraordinary people we could be in our inhumanity to one another.
But then, equally, I was exhilarated in the encounter that I had, or the magnanimity, the nobility of people who, having suffered as grievously as many of them had done, people who should have been, by rights, filled with anger and bitterness and hatred, and a lust for revenge--that those people could have this incredible
And so looking at the world, looking at South Africa and the fact that the so-called miracle of 1994 could happen, where--whereas the world was expecting a blood bath, we had a relative--relatively peaceful transition.
I have come, more and more, to believe that we do capacity to forgive. have a capacity to transcend the ghastlinesses. That we, we do have, I think, a hunger for goodness, that we have seen in so many people.
We do have a capacity for caring and compassion, and that we do have very many, in our societies, who are seeking to strive for a different kind of society--gentle, caring, compassionate, one that recognizes the worth of each person. That people in fact do matter more than things, more than, more than profits, and that we will in fact have a new kind of world.
DR. FRANKLIN: Let me say this. That we, many of us have looked at the proceedings in South Africa during the last four to five years with continued admiration for the capacity which all of you demonstrated, that you have that human quality of being able to, to endure, and at the same time, to forgive.
And I do believe that the example that you've set forth is an example not only for your own people but for people throughout the world, and that we are inspired and encouraged, that if you can do it, almost any people can do it.
And in the way that so many of your forebear--the forebears in your country sought examples and instruction from this country and its practices, in the establishment of apartheid, so we look to you as an example of how you can break down an evil, racist situation, and out of it erect a healthy society.
ARCHBISHOP TUTU: I don't want us to be a mutual admiration society, but I do want to let you know just how much we derived strength and inspiration from your struggles, from your achievements. As a small boy, I was taken by the story of Jackie Robinson, and inspired, and many, many times we have looked to yourselves and your own struggle, the civil rights movement.
We're used to singing with you, "We Shall Overcome," and so we are beneficiaries in our successful struggle of your support, your examples, your inspiration.
DR. FRANKLIN: Thank you.
ARCHBISHOP TUTU: God bless you.
DR. FRANKLIN: Thank you, and you, too.
ARCHBISHOP TUTU: Thank you very, very much.
DR. FRANKLIN: Thank you very much, Archbishop.
ARCHBISHOP TUTU: It's been an honor to be with you.
DR. FRANKLIN: My privilege. My pleasure. My blessing.
