Defamation trial for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard raises concerns about domestic violence

Geoff Bennett:

Let's turn now to some of the questions coming out of the trial of actors Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.

A Virginia jury yesterday ordered Heard to pay Depp, her ex-husband, $15 million in damages in a defamation case. The jury also ordered Depp to pay heard $2 million in damages. Depp sued his ex-wife for defamation in 2019 after she published a piece the year before about her experiences as a survivor of domestic abuse.

John Yang looks at some concerns over the fallout from this trial.

John Yang:

Geoff, Johnny Depp sued his ex-wife over a Washington Post op-ed in which the — she referred to herself as a public figure representing domestic abuse.

While Heard never mentioned Depp by name, the actor argued it was clear she was referring to him and said it cost him work. During the trial, Heard testified the Depp had sexually, physically and verbally abused her. Depp denied any physical or sexual abuse and accused Heard of domestic abuse against him.

The six weeks of testimony generated international headlines, and many domestic violence experts and advocates have concerns not only about the verdict, but about how the trial played out.

Ruth Glenn is president and CEO of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

Ruth Glenn, thanks for being with us.

Ruth Glenn, National Coalition Against Domestic Violence:

Thank you.

John Yang:

First of all, what do you think the message was not just the verdict, but what went on in the courtroom and what went on outside the courtroom on social media?

Ruth Glenn:

I think — so, first of all, thank you so much for having me.

But I would say that what we witnessed in — during this case in the courtroom, and certainly outside of the courtroom, was a miscarriage of understanding the dynamics of domestic violence.

We watched what was occurring in the courtroom, which was not really kind of focusing on what was the defamation issue, which was another issue, but also not dealing with our understanding in that court system and process what the dynamics of domestic violence are.

Outside of the courtroom was something I think — I don't think many of us have ever seen before, which was Depp supporters really taking a narrative and exerting public opinion social media and otherwise that may have impacted the results of this, the verdict of this trial.

John Yang:

Talk about that, what was going on, on social media. She — Heard said she received hundreds of death threats a day, countless social media posts mocking her testimony.

What do you make of all that? Where did that come from?

Ruth Glenn:

You know, I firmly believe, as does this organization, and certainly is up for debate, but I believe that there was a machine behind this, which was — first and foremost was a P.R. and — a P.R. and a strategy and attorneys on Mr. Depp's side that understood that they had to do some of this to ensure that he had the support from his fans, to put it quite simply.

And it's certainly more complicated on that side around strategy.

But, secondly, I think the thing that was most concerning for us here was the ability of — to further control whom we believe is a victim of domestic violence, because we have the expertise and understanding of the dynamics of domestic violence.

And seeing all of the testimony, the evidence, and watching even the courtroom interactions and terms and such that were used, when you're going to make domestic violence a central theme to this, then we should have had domestic violence experts in that courtroom.

So we dealt with the court of public opinion, which was mostly made up of Mr. Depp's fans, and then we dealt with not having domestic violence experts there helping lead the conversation around domestic violence.

John Yang:

What message do you think this sends to — I mean, we all — we know that domestic violence, sexual assault are underreported crimes.

What message does this send to someone who may be experiencing this now and trying to figure out whether to speak up, whether to make the accusation?

Ruth Glenn:

I think it sends the message that, as far as we think we have come as a society, and particularly as a nation, that we have not come that far.

We still have to navigate some of the issues that have always prevented us from being able to speak out about being survivors and victims, which is, you won't be believed, you don't have a right to voice it, and unless you're the perfect victim, a victim that is palatable to society, and fits within whatever that stereotype is, it's probably best that you not speak that.

I do want to be clear, though, I don't want this to be a turning point for that. I do think that there is hope and this is a blip that will and may prevent some chilling effect, but we're going to have to keep moving forward in allowing victims and survivors to have their voice and talk about the abuse that they have endured.

John Yang:

Talk about — you talked about the stereotypical abuse survivor, someone who's palatable to the general public.

Talk a little bit more about that, and was Amber Heard fit into that?

Ruth Glenn:

So, the stereotype of a victim — I used this analogy earlier today, which is, you see the billboard and by the bus stop of the victim who has the black eye, and she has three children held close to her. And she may be your everyday white woman who's just had a series of bad things happen to her, including domestic violence.

I would say to all of us that that is the stereotypical view. Amber Heard did not fit in that stereotype. And most victims and survivors do not. I think this is one of the few times that we saw where she absolutely did not fit into the stereotype.

John Yang:

Ruth Glenn of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, thank you very much.

Ruth Glenn:

Thank you.