How Trump attempted to use federal agencies to seize voting machines after 2020 election

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• Judy Woodruff:

  New reporting indicates former President Donald Trump attempted to use federal agencies to seize voting machines after the 2020 presidential election.

  Geoff Bennett has more.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Judy, The New York Times is reporting that, six weeks after the 2020 election, former President Donald Trump directed his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, to ask the Department of Homeland Security if it could take possession of voting machines in key swing states.

  Now, this is just the latest in a string of revelations about the former president's aggressive efforts to overturn the election he lost.

  It is also at the heart of what the January 6 Committee is investigating, says Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin.

• Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD):

  This president clearly tried to overthrow a presidential election. He's the first president in American history to do it.

  So, our committee is charged with telling America the truth. And we're going to get that truth out there in very vivid and fine-grained detail, so America understands exactly what happened.

• Geoff Bennett:

  To walk us through all of this, I'm joined by one of The New York Times reporters who broke the story, Luke Broadwater, New York Times congressional correspondent.

  Luke, it's great to have you with us.

  Help us understand how this new reporting advances our knowledge about the former president's efforts, his aggressive efforts to overturn the election he lost.

• Luke Broadwater, The New York Times:

  Sure.

  We have known for some time that there was a plot among Trump allies to try to take control of voting machines in the weeks after the election that President Trump lost.

  What's new about this reporting is that it shows what President Trump did with that information. Now, there was this meeting on December 18 in the White House, where a Trump lawyer named Sidney Powell, former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, and others entered the White House into the Oval Office and pitched President Trump on these executive orders, these plans to seize voting machines.

  But what's new here is that Donald Trump then took another step after that. He didn't just hear the people out or show interest in it. He — one, he directed his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to contact the Department of Homeland Security to see if they could, in fact, seize voting machines.

  And then he also asked his attorney general, Bill Barr, whether the Justice Department could seize voting machines.

  So this shows he tried to attempt to two different branches of government to enact this plan to take control of voting machines in six different states.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And, based on your reporting, Barr immediately shot the idea down.

  How does this put into a new light Barr's decision that same month to resign?

• Luke Broadwater:

  Yes, I mean, I think that Bill Barr was at his — perhaps at his wit's end there at the end of the Trump administration.

  As you know, he was involved in pushing back against some of these very dangerous plans to try to overturn the election. And, in fact, he came out and made a public statement saying that the Justice Department had found no fraud whatsoever in the election, or at least no widespread fraud in the election.

  And he had also rejected the attempts to appointed Sidney Powell, the pro-Trump lawyer who was encouraging the seizures, as a special counsel for the White House to oversee these plans.

  So I do think that this affected in some ways Bill Barr's thinking in those final days of the Trump administration.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Luke, do you know where this idea to seize voting machines originated?

• Luke Broadwater:

  Well, it's hard to credit it to one person, but it does seem like a retired colonel named Phil Waldron down in Texas, who was a contact of Mike Flynn and of Sidney Powell, was the first person to start really promoting this idea that there was so much widespread fraud, that China had interfered in the election, was flipping votes of voting machines, all sorts of crazy, really insane plans, and that the only remedy of trying to fix these things was to basically rerun the election, have the National Guard come in, seize voting machines.

  And so he then contacts General Flynn. He contacts Sidney Powell. Eventually, they get their way into the White House. They actually show up unannounced. They have a low-level staffer swipe them in. That staffer's privileges are then revoked after this meeting. Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, revokes this staffer's privileges to let people in the White House.

  But I think it shows how some of these far — these really crazy ideas that most people would discount have found an audience with President Trump.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And fast forward to the present moment. The former president is still focused on the 2020 election, still pushing the false notion that former Vice President Mike Pence had the power and authority to overturn the election.

  And then there are President Trump's comments at a rally this past weekend, where he appeared to dangle the prospects of pardons for January 6 rioters.

  Donald Trump, Former President of the United States: If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly.

  (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

• Donald Trump:

  And, if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons, because they are being treated so unfairly.

• Geoff Bennett:

  So, in many ways, it suggests that the conspiracy to undermine or completely overturn the election didn't end on January 6. In many ways, this is still ongoing.

• Luke Broadwater:

  Yes.

  I was talking with several members of the January 6 Committee throughout the day today. And all of them pointed to those remarks over this — over the weekend, that, in some ways, former President Trump just admitted the very things that they're trying to uncover.

  One, he stated openly he was trying to overturn the election. Two, he floated pardons for people who attacked the Capitol. And, three, he said, if he's charged with a crime, that he would hold huge rallies and protests again, almost as a threat against investigators.

  So, when you hear those things, and you see the lengths the former president was going to go to, to cling to power, whether it was the seizure of voting machines, or having a massive rally on January 6 to pressure Mike Pence, or put forward fake slates of electors from different states, all these different avenues were part of what could say — what one could say is a was a large plot with many different pieces in place to try to overturn the election.

  And sort of, when one avenue failed, President Trump then turned to another one.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Luke Broadwater, I appreciate you joining us.

• Luke Broadwater:

  Thank you.

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