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Broken Justice Episode 2: How did we get here? – the full transcript

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Amna Nawaz: Hey y’all. This is episode two of a five part series. So if you didn’t start from the beginning, trust me, it’ll all make a lot more sense if you stop right here and go back to episode one.

Ricky Kidd: I just remember telling them that they was making a mistake, they was making a mistake and I thought that they were going to figure this out when we get downtown. Twenty three years later, we still haven’t quite figured it out, or they haven’t at least.

Amna Nawaz: In episode one, we introduced you to Ricky Kidd, the Kansas City man, who in 1997, was found guilty of double homicide and then sentenced to life without parole. And to this day, maintains he’s innocent of that crime.

Ricky Kidd: If Ricky Lamont Kidd isn’t a case of real innocence, then does such exist?

Amna Nawaz: Ricky Kidd’s case represents a fundamental problem with our justice system: that public defenders just have too many cases, and not enough time to give all of their cases the treatment they need. So poor defendants like Ricky suffer.

Ricky Kidd: This notion that somebody is going to get charged and charged properly and then represented if he’s poor and represented properly? That’s that’s a false notion.

Amna Nawaz: This idea Ricky’s talking about, the right to a lawyer for people who can’t afford to pay for one, how did we get that right in the first place? To understand that we need to go back to 1963, when a poor man in Florida demanded a lawyer from the highest court in the country, and won that fight.

How we built a public defender system, And how we broke it.

“Broken Justice” show theme montage:
Frank Carlson: Do they have a nickname for public defenders?
Defendant: Oh yeah, yeah they call ‘em public pretenders
Public defender: These are my docket cases, probations.
Public defender: I have 119 open cases.
Public defender: 131 open cases.
Public defender: Hey, here’s your 200 cases. You have court in 20 minutes. It’s across the street. Go.
Public defender: I feel the stress of 150 souls on my back.
Public defender: And you know that some of them are slipping through the cracks
Automated Voice: This is a free call from
Ricky Kidd: Ricky
Ricky Kidd: I 100 percent believe that I’m in prison today because of the Missouri public defender system.

Amna Nawaz: This is “Broken Justice,” a show from the PBS NewsHour about the public defender system in Missouri – and what it tells us about justice in America. I’m Amna Nawaz.

Frank Carlson: And I’m Frank Carlson.

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Amna Nawaz: Frank, this right to a free counsel for poor people, we haven’t had it forever. Where does it come from?

Frank Carlson: Well, it all starts with the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution. That’s the one that deals with trials. It says “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury,” and then I’m going to skip ahead to the end, because this is part we care about “and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.”

Amna Nawaz: That sounds like you get the right to a lawyer, no matter what, whether you can afford one or not.

Frank Carlson: Yeah, it sounds like that, but for a while actually, the Supreme Court didn’t see it that way, and it wasn’t the law of the land. For most of our history, the Sixth Amendment didn’t mean you were entitled to a lawyer, it meant the court couldn’t deny you a one. And so if you couldn’t afford a lawyer, tough luck. But at least in state courts, where the vast majority of cases take place, that all changed in the early 1960s.

Actor : I don’t have any money.

Frank Carlson: When a man named Clarence Earl Gideon asked for a lawyer.

Actor: I want you to appoint somebody to represent me.

Frank Carlson: Here he is played by Henry Fonda — in a 1980 made for TV movie called “Gideon’s Trumpet.”

Amna Nawaz: That definitely sounds like something a substitute teacher would have shown me in middle school.

Frank Carlson: Yeah it really does — but Gideon’s story is really important.

Actor: Come, come close up Mr. Gideon I can’t understand you.

Actor: I said I want you to appoint a lawyer to represent me in this trial.

Frank Carlson: See what Gideon did right there — that simple act of asking for a lawyer
It would forever change our legal system, making him a hero to civil rights advocates, historians and legal scholars across the country. But before all of that, Gideon was a poor white man from Missouri.

Amna Nawaz: All roads lead back to Missouri, right?

Frank Carlson: Right, they do, and when Gideon was a teenager, he ran away from home. He ended up living as a poor drifter for most of his life, arrested several times for petty crimes.

Actor: I gotta take you in in connection with this poolroom thing.

Frank Carlson: And then in 1961, when Gideon was 50, he got arrested for robbing a pool hall in Panama City, Florida.

Actor: You didn’t bust in there and help yourself to the silver, and the jukebox, and the cigarette machine?

Actor: No sir, not me. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Amna Nawaz: How do we get from the pool hall to the Supreme Court?

Frank Carlson: Well, first he appeared before a local judge.

Karen Houppert: He said to the judge very clearly that he wanted an attorney and the judge said “well, sorry.”

Frank Carlson: That’s Karen Houppert, a journalist in Baltimore who wrote a book about the state of public defense in America — it’s called “Chasing Gideon.”

Karen Houppert: Gideon said “But I’m entitled to an attorney, it’s my right.” And the judge said “No, actually, you’re not.”

Frank Carlson: So Gideon was forced to represent himself.

Karen Houppert: And he lost his case, not surprisingly, and was sentenced to five years in jail, in prison.

Frank Carlson: While doing that time, Gideon wrote a note on prison stationery to the Florida Supreme Court, trying to appeal his case. I asked Karen to read part of that letter.

Karen Houppert: It makes no difference how old I am or what color I am, or what church I belong to, if any. The question is I did not get a fair trial. The question is very simple. I requested the court to appoint me an attorney, and the court refused.

Frank Carlson: Gideon wasn’t the first poor person to ask for a lawyer and to have been told no. And so of course, he lost his appeal. But he didn’t stop there. He appealed all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. And his timing was good. It was the 1960s and the country was changing.

Archival clip: Join hands and and sing in the old negro spiritual: Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty we are free at last.

Frank Carlson: The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. marched on Washington for civil rights. The women’s movement was also in full swing.

Archival clip: Well, the main demand of course, is equal rights. Equal rights to have a job, to have respect, to not be treated like a piece of meat.

Karen Houppert: I think that all of that was part of a shifting cultural conversation about what justice will look like in the United States.

Frank Carlson: At the time the Supreme Court was led by Earl Warren, the famous liberal. And the court agreed to hear Gideon’s case.

Amna Nawaz: But wait, the whole case was about how Gideon couldn’t afford a lawyer, so who represented him?

Frank Carlson: Well, the court appointed a lawyer named Abe Fortas — to represent Gideon. And he was a legal heavyweight, and pretty quickly, he got to the point. This is audio of him arguing before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Abe Fortas: Indeed, I believe that the right way to look at this is that a court, a criminal court is not properly constituted under our adversary system of law, unless there is a judge, and unless there is a counsel for the prosecution, and unless there is a counsel for the defense.

Karen Houppert: He is really, in that moment, getting at the crux of the argument which is that our system — our legal system — is designed as an adversarial system. And that means that by arguing two sides equally matched will get at the truth. So that means that the defendant absolutely must have an attorney to represent him or her.

Amna Nawaz: Ok, so that is the argument being made by Gideon’s lawyer. But how did the court rule?

Frank Carlson: They agreed. The Justices unanimously ruled in Gideon’s favor, laying down the principle that anyone accused of a felony in state court deserved the right to counsel.

Clarence Earl Gideon: Well, I felt great.

Frank Carlson: Here’s Gideon himself remembering that decision in a 1964 CBS documentary about his case.

Clarence Earl Gideon: I was listening for the decision on the radio. When it came on most of prison population heard it. You could hear ‘em holler for ten miles I suppose from there.

Amna Nawaz: So Gideon won this case! That seems like a really big deal for our legal system.

Frank Carlson: It was huge. But he still had to answer for the original crime. And so, he was retried in his original case in Florida — before the exact same judge. Here’s that made for TV movie again:

Actor: Hand your verdict to the bailiff.

Frank Carlson: And with the help of a lawyer:

Actor: Clarence Earl Gideon, the jury finds you not guilty.

Frank Carlson: He won. And, in the process, he changed the justice system for millions of Americans by ensuring everyone the right to a lawyer — even if they couldn’t afford one.

Actor: And the whole course of American legal history has been changed.

Amna Nawaz: So Gideon won his case, the whole legal system’s been changed, why are there still so many problems with this system?

Jason Williamson: Unfortunately, the court failed to lay out any road map for states to figure out how to provide this right to counsel.

Frank Carlson: That’s Jason Williamson, who works for the American Civil Liberties Union. He says: while the Gideon decision was huge, the court didn’t tell states how to implement this new mandate — or how to pay for it. And to be fair, that wasn’t their job.

Amna Nawaz: So if it wasn’t their job, whose job was it?

Frank Carlson: Well the court’s job was to rule on whether poor people had the right to a lawyer. It wasn’t to figure out how they’d get one. That problem now fell to the states. And, with no standards, they were left with a lot of really different ways to meet this new obligation.

Was the answer to hire a private lawyer who occasionally took cases assigned by the court? Was it to hire a law firm that handled all these cases for a flat fee? Was it to create a state office that only did this kind of work?

Amna Nawaz: Ok, ok, so no no matter how poor you are, you’re supposed to get a lawyer in court — but no one can agree on how that’s supposed to happen?

Frank Carlson: Exactly. And this new fangled thing –public defense — it had to compete with spending on things like roads and schools and healthcare, and police, and jails, and prisons. And taking money away from those things to provide lawyers to poor people accused of crimes? It was a really tough sell and still is. Here’s Jason Williamson again:

Jason Williamson: We’re talking about people who are probably the most vulnerable and most despised in our country. Doing those folks any sort of favor is not going to be at the top of anybody’s list.

Frank Carlson: As these different systems were being developed across the country, something else was happening.

Richard Nixon: America’s public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse.

Frank Carlson: In 1971, President Richard Nixon declared a war on drugs.

Richard Nixon: In order to fight and defeat this enemy, it is necessary to wage a new all out offensive.

Jason Williamson: There was an expansion of drug law enforcement, particularly in communities of color and, and poor communities coupled with an exponential increase in the sentences that people were receiving for those drug convictions.

Frank Carlson: So in the 1970s and ‘80s, more people were getting arrested for drug crimes. And at the same time, the rate of violent crime was also going up.

Newscaster: In 10 years, the homicide toll increased five and a half times.

Frank Carlson: By the early 1990s, violent crime was more than four and a half times higher than it had been back in 1963, when Gideon’s case was decided. And politicians responded by locking up more people for longer and longer sentences — a disproportionate number of them people of color.

Bill Clinton: Let us go forward, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. Let us roll up our sleeves to roll back this awful tide of violence and reduce crime in our country.

Amna Nawaz: Ok, so Gideon gets poor people the right to a lawyer. And then there’s this war on drugs, and the rise in violent crime, more people entering the system. A lot more people who might need help from a public defender, right?

Frank Carlson: Right, and that created this huge mismatch — the number of lawyers wasn’t increasing along with the number of people who needed help. So with increasing caseloads, public defenders began to really struggle in states across the country. And Missouri was no different. And that is the system that Ricky Kidd stepped into in 1996.

After the break, what happened when Ricky was charged with murder and asked for a public defender?

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Frank Carlson: On the morning of February 6, 1996, in Kansas City, Missouri. A 4-year-old girl picked up a phone and dialed 911. She told the dispatcher, “somebody killed my daddy.”

Newscaster: Rescue workers tried to save George Bryant’s life just moments after he was gunned down at his own home in southeast Kansas City.

Frank Carlson: When police arrived at her home, they found George Bryant lying in the snow outside of his house: he had multiple gunshot wounds and was rushed to a nearby hospital. But he died.

Newscaster: Neighbors describe the 33-year-old victim as a family man who kept to himself.

Frank Carlson: The garage door was open, and with his gun drawn, a police officer entered to find that little girl still talking to the 911 dispatcher. Officers took the little girl to their patrol car, where she began to cry for her daddy — that man lying in the snow.

Newscaster: Police would later find another unidentified man shot inside the house.

Frank Carlson: Downstairs, they found Oscar Bridges, a middle-aged man who had duct tape over his mouth and binding his feet and ankles. He’d been executed with two shots to his head. By the afternoon, the 4-year-old girl’s house was a crime scene.

Newscaster: Investigators tell us the men did not shoot each other. They are looking for one or more suspects

Frank Carlson: Witnesses described the suspects as three black men wearing black clothing seen driving off in a white four-door car.

Ricky Kidd: In 1996, I was a good kid. I just wanted money and I uh, probably should have been in business somewhere legitimate in college somewhere.

Frank Carlson: At the time, Ricky Kidd — the man we began this episode with — was 21 years old and living in Kansas City. He’d grown up in a tough environment – he says his mother struggled with drug addiction and when he was 12, she abandoned the family. He was left alone. He dropped out of high school and started selling marijuana and cocaine.

Ricky Kidd: I saw a quick way to make a quick buck and my young mind processed it as being harmless.

Frank Carlson: But things were also looking up for Ricky. He had a new girlfriend, a young woman named Monica Grey and she came from a stable family — Ricky was spending more and more time with them. And he and Monica had moved in together. But Ricky was still selling drugs, unbeknownst to Monica, and that life would eventually catch up with him. In February 1996 — the same month of the murders — he was arrested for drug trafficking. He pleaded guilty and got probation.

Ricky Kidd: So I thought this was a turning point for me. Maybe I needed that. Maybe I needed a slap on the wrist.

Frank Carlson: A few months later, in May of 1996, Ricky went downtown to meet with his probation officer. And while they were talking, two police officers showed up and arrested Ricky. They’d acted on an anonymous tip and two eyewitness identifications and they charged Ricky and another man, with the murders of George Bryant and Oscar Bridges.

Ricky Kidd: I was shocked. And um, I just remember telling them that they was making a mistake, they was making a mistake.

Frank Carlson: Ricky couldn’t afford a private attorney, so he applied for a public defender and was assigned one named Teresa Anderson.

Frank Carlson: Talk about the workload, the caseload during that time.

Teresa Anderson: It was, I mean, heavy obviously.

Frank Carlson: That’s Teresa Anderson. When she was assigned Ricky’s case, she was 31 years old. And had been working as a public defender in Kansas City for three years. It was her first job out of law school. And pretty quickly, she was overwhelmed.

Teresa Anderson: It was at a time when there was some realization that we um, were, you know, at a minimum were really working as much as we possibly could under a great deal of stress, you know. But, we needed help.

Frank Carlson: In fact, a report came out in 1993, around the time when Teresa started in the Kansas City office, and it warned that Missouri’s public defender system was overloaded and that clients could suffer as a result.

Amna Nawaz: Ok so you have Teresa Anderson, who’s just three years out of law school and she’s dealing with a murder case on top of a bunch of other cases, and she’s totally feeling overwhelmed. And then you’ve got Ricky Kidd who’s charged with a double homicide and basically counting on her to get him out.

Frank Carlson: Exactly. And Ricky says that because he didn’t commit this crime, he wasn’t really worried.

Ricky Kidd: I knew that there was elements of evidence and various witness statements that could prove my innocence and thought that my attorney, appointed by the public defender system, would be equipped to be able to deal with that and flush out that truth.

Frank Carlson: One of things Ricky’s talking about is that he and his girlfriend, Monica, were together on the day of the murders, they said they had been all over town together — including a stop at the Sheriff’s Office.

Amna Nawaz: Wait, the Sheriff’s Office? It seems like a visit to a government office would be a really good alibi for Ricky.

Frank Carlson: Yeah it’s a pretty good alibi. But even beyond that, Ricky also says he knew who actually committed the murders. We’re going to tell you more about that in the next episode.

Amna Nawaz: Alright. So, you would think Ricky could just tell all of this to Teresa, his public defender and then be good to go.

Frank Carlson: Right. He figured she’d would explain it to the prosecutor and the detectives, they’d go investigate and see that it couldn’t have been Ricky who committed these murders, and they’d set him free. But, Teresa knew it wasn’t that easy.

Teresa Anderson: Ricky’s view was “but I’m innocent!” and “the system will work!” and “I’ll get out!” and you know and it’s just you know, my experience had not been that.

Frank Carlson: Ricky was so convinced that the police had simply made a mistake that he told one of the detectives that he knew who the actual killers were. But the prosecutor didn’t believe Ricky, and now he’d admitted to knowing more than he’d first let on. Teresa was frustrated that Ricky had gone behind her back. And we know that because we have some of Teresa’s letters to Ricky from that time.

A few weeks after his arrest, she sent him this one. It says: “I cannot emphasize how important my advice is at the moment …I know that you are in the jail and you don’t want to be there, however, my job is to keep you from going to prison for the rest of your life and that is what I intend to do.”

And she ended it with this: “You know I am in trial this week. That man’s case is just as important as yours and you will have to just let me finish this trial before I can come see you.” Like so many other public defenders — Teresa had a lot of other cases to deal with at the time.

Teresa Anderson: I mean, it’s almost like you know like a doctor during the Vietnam War or something. You know you’re just kind of like … Well ok, you might lose the leg but we’re going to save the other one. You know, I mean.

Frank Carlson: You’re saying triage.

Teresa Anderson: Yeah. You’re in triage, so, so, hang tight. We’ll figure out what we can do.

Frank Carlson: In those early stages — Teresa says she wondered whether they could cut a deal with the prosecution — get Ricky to plead guilty to a lesser charge to reduce his potential prison time.

Teresa Anderson: You know, that’s kind of your first thought is, “OK. Where are we at? What’s the evidence? Can they prove it? Can we work something out so you only spend 10 years of your life in prison versus every single day until you’re dead?”

Frank Carlson: Ricky did not like that idea.

Ricky Kidd: I was hot. I was livid. I was like an innocent man doesn’t take a plea. No, I don’t want to plea. I want it to be over. I wanted my trial. I wanted my day in court.

Frank Carlson: Weeks passed. Ricky kept calling and writing Teresa, begging her to spend more time on his case. And he says he pointed to a number of things he thought she could do, like talk to his alibi witnesses, or check for evidence like video surveillance that could back up his story.

But after a couple of months in jail and seemingly no movement on his case, it was dawning on Ricky that maybe his public defender didn’t have the time or resources to represent him properly.

Ricky Kidd: So my family would contact her too – my sister or Monica and “hey why you’re not working with him or helping him on his case?” And um, she even got mad about that. Like “don’t have your family to keep calling me, bugging me. I’ll talk to one person, maybe one time, maybe here and there.” But basically, “lay off my back.”

Frank Carlson: And that’s not just Ricky’s memory. We have Teresa’s letter to him from august 1996 when she wrote: “You should be on notice that I will take one phone call from you or Monica per week, if I am available. I will talk to your mother when she calls, if I am available.” And then she ends it with this: “If you cannot live with these terms, I suggest you hire another lawyer.”

Amna Nawaz: So it clearly sounds like Teresa’s frustrated and we know how overwhelmed someone in her position would be. At the same time, Ricky has to be frustrated right? Because this is the one person whose there to defend him.

Frank Carlson: Yeah, I mean for better or for worse, they were stuck with each other. Then in August — six months after the murders — three months after being locked up — Ricky finally received the evidence the state had against him. There were two eyewitnesses who said they could put Ricky at the scene — but there was no physical evidence tying him to the crime. He felt even more confident there was no case, if only Teresa would get on it. But he was starting to get concerned that she never would.

Ricky Kidd: I don’t think we did much work when it came to uh, strategy. I don’t think she had the resources and the time to follow up on things that I was screaming that needed to be followed up on.

Frank Carlson: In September, he asked the judge to have Teresa dismissed as his lawyer. He wrote in this official letter to the court that he’d only talked to her three times in four months and he felt that she hadn’t helped him in any way.

But the judge denied Ricky’s request that same day.

When his trial finally came, in March of 1997, more than a year after the murders, Ricky was worried, but he still hoped that his innocence would be enough to walk free.

Ricky Kidd: I’m going to go to trial and be found not guilty because I didn’t do it. They’re going to see it, right?

Frank Carlson: Teresa presented an alibi defense — meaning her story was that Ricky couldn’t have committed the murders because he was somewhere else that day.

Amna Nawaz: But Ricky had also told Teresa he knew who committed the murders —

Frank Carlson: Right but Teresa didn’t think she had enough evidence to introduce that theory. So it stayed out of court. And to prove her alibi case, Teresa called on seven witnesses to confirm Ricky’s story — which they did. There’s no audio available from this trial, so what you’re about to hear are reenactments from the court transcripts.

Actor playing Teresa Anderson: Everybody knows your name and I’ll have you say it for the record. Please tell me your name.

Actor playing Ricky Kidd: Ricky Kidd

Frank Carlson: Ricky also took the stand.

Actor playing Teresa Anderson: What time did you get up that morning?

Actor playing Ricky Kidd: I believe around 9 o’clock.

Frank Carlson: And told the same story he had since his arrest — about being with Monica that day and visiting the Sheriff’s Department.

Actor playing Teresa Anderson: After you left McDonald’s, where were you headed?

Actor playing Ricky Kidd: To the Sheriff’s Department.

Actor playing Teresa Anderson: Why were you going to the Sheriff’s Department?

Actor playing Ricky Kidd: To get a gun permit.

Actor playing Teresa Anderson. Ok, let’s talk a little bit about that.

Frank Carlson: But the state found a way to poke holes in Ricky’s story — and his witnesses’ accounts. Here’s a prosecutor cross-examining one of the witnesses about how he could remember events from more than a year earlier:

Actor playing Mark Nasteff: You can’t remember what you did on the 4th of February, can you?

Actor playing L.D. Gratts: No, I don’t specifically.

Actor playing Mark Nasteff: How about the 8th of February?

Actor playing L.D. Gratts: Not even that.

Frank Carlson: It had been a year since the murders, and so the prosecutors argued that Ricky’s witnesses were telling the truth — just the truth about a different day. And really – a year later, how sure could the witnesses be about which day it was?

And then, to prove Ricky had done it, the state called on two eyewitnesses who put Ricky at the scene. The first was the daughter of one of the victims: the 4-year-old girl who’d called 911. But in court, she couldn’t point Ricky out as a one of the killers.

Amna Nawaz: So that sounds like it is not good for the prosecution’s case.

Frank Carlson: No, not at all. But then the other eyewitness — a neighbor of the victims — he told the jury that he was certain he saw Ricky Kidd shoot George Bryant.

Actor playing Amy McGowan: Mr. Harris, sitting here today, how positive are you that Mr. Kidd, Ricky Kidd, was the person that you saw —

Actor playing Richard Harris: 2,001 —

Actor playing Amy McGowan: Let me finish my question — walk out of the garage with a gun and shoot George Bryant on February 6, 1996?

Actor playing Richard Harris: 2,001 percent sure.

Frank Carlson: Ricky’s trial lasted more than a week. The jury deliberated for just one hour. And then convicted Ricky and another man of two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of armed criminal action.

Teresa Anderson: The verdict was shocking to me. I mean it was, you know, emotionally hard. So I can totally see where he walked away going “Oh my God, I cannot believe this just happened to me.”

Frank Carlson: The judge sentenced each of them to four back-to-back life terms. No possibility of parole.

Ricky Kidd: Those were some dark times for me. I knew that Monica needed me. I knew that my newborn baby needed me but they were not going to get the chance to have me. And um, it was so devastating. I was in so much distress. Tears. My whole world was turned upside down.

Amna Nawaz: Ricky had believed in the promise that someone who couldn’t afford an attorney would have one to represent him. And technically, he had a lawyer. But now, he was going to spend the rest of his life in prison.

Sean O’Brien: A warm body with a pulse and a law license is not enough.

Amna Nawaz: In the next episode … we go through the key failures of Ricky’s investigation and trial.

Dan Grothaus: I would bet that an investigator that knew what they were doing could have spent 20 hours, maybe 30 hours, on that case and come up with some reasonable doubt.

Amna Nawaz: And how the outcome could’ve been different.

Ricky Kidd: It’s, it’s been rough. It’s been rough winding up with life without the possibility of parole for something I didn’t even do.

Amna Nawaz: That’s on the next episode of “Broken Justice.”

“Broken Justice” is hosted by me, Amna Nawaz, reported by Frank Carlson and produced by Vika Aronson. Editing by Erica R. Hendry and Emily Carpeaux. Engineering by Tom Satterfield. Production assistance from Chris Ford. Fact-checking by Maea Lenei Buhre, Amber Partida, and Harry Zahn. Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura composed our theme music. Additional music by Blue Dot Sessions. The actors in this episode were Courtney Vinopal, J.C. Howard, Bryan Wood, Bill Barber, Gretchen Frazee, and John Hyater.

Thanks to the folks at Gideon Productions for letting us use audio from their film, Gideon’s Trumpet.

And Thanks also to Channel 41 KSHB in Kansas City for sharing their 1996 report on the murders of Geoge Bryant and Oscar Bridges.

Sara Just is our Executive Producer.

Let us know what you think of the show and send your questions to podcasts@newshour.org. Tweet us @newshour and leave us a review in Apple podcasts. Check out show extras, including a look at Ricky and Teresa’s letters to each other leading up to the trial, on our website: pbs.org/newshour/podcasts.

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