4 years into Russia's invasion, Ukrainians struggle with war's terrible toll

Geoff Bennett:

Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine began four years ago today.

Europe's largest and most brutal conflict since the Second World War has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, over 15,000 of them estimated to be civilians.

Amna Nawaz:

European leaders met again today to pressure Russia as the many rounds of peace talks over the last year have produced few results and as beleaguered Ukrainians struggle to deal with the war's terrible toll.

Nick Schifrin reports.

And a warning:

Some images in this story are disturbing.

Nick Schifrin:

In Kyiv this morning, a moment of silence for a nation in mourning, four years of war and sacrifice, of air raid sirens and cemeteries filled, four years of grief, of mothers who will never again see their children, the ultimate sacrifice made by more than 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers.

As the hell of this war rages, the front lines become so deadly, it's known as a 12-mile-wide valley of death; 1.6 million Russian and Ukrainian soldiers have either been killed, injured or missing since the start of the war. That number will reach two million this spring. More than 60 percent are Russian.

It is usually illegal to enter Russian military cemeteries. But a woman posted this YouTube video from St. Petersburg and a poem placed next to the grave of a 30-year-old Russian soldier: "No need to cry for me. So many of us are dying here, countless of us. The blood of boys is everywhere."

In Ukraine, it's been the deadliest year of the war. The targets include kindergartens, one in Kharkiv, where parents and emergency workers ran to rescue 48 children, who all survived, also hospitals, its patients rescued on stretchers, nursing homes evicting the most vulnerable, and entire cities, Irpin, once a bustling Kyiv suburb, now burned out and silent, like the graves of its former residents.

No one nowhere has been spared the war's horrors. Nearly four years ago, Olha Stiahluk lost her 21-year-old son, Yuri.

Olha Stiahluk, Mother of Fallen Ukrainian Soldier (through interpreter): What someone once considered to be a tragedy, a misfortune, now compared to this, to all this, what's happening here, you grasp what a terrible war this is.

Nick Schifrin:

Terrible especially from the sky. We filmed this week in Izium, already once captured just 18 miles from the front. Today, they try to protect themselves using nets to catch drones. But 22-year-old Yulia Kondzha has nowhere to hide with her 1-year-old, Yuliana.

Yulia Kondzha, Izium, Ukraine, Resident (through interpreter):

There is no shelter. We sit between the walls, where there are no windows, doors, so that it is a little safer. My daughter is not afraid yet. She is too young to understand. But, still, the attacks have become much more frequent, much more.

Nick Schifrin:

Russia has also targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure, plunging millions into freezing darkness during the coldest winter in over a decade. That has helped Russia make slow advances even at enormous cost.

In four years, Russia has captured an additional 12 percent of Ukrainian territory, now controlling about one-fifth of the country, including most of the Donbass and the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Those are the main territorial sticking points, as Russian, Ukrainian and American negotiators met last week for trilateral talks.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Ukrainian President (through interpreter):

One thousand and four hundred and sixty-two days of the full-scale war. Of course, we all want the war to end, but no one will allow Ukraine to end. We want peace, strong, dignified, lasting. That is why there are so many rounds of negotiations and a battle for every word, for every point, for real security guarantees.

Nick Schifrin:

And to discuss this sober anniversary, as well as questions around the future of American tariffs after the Supreme Court on Friday struck down President Trump's tariff structure, I'm joined by the European Union Ambassador to Washington Jovita Neliupsiene.

Thank you very much. Welcome back to the "News Hour."

Jovita Neliupsiene, European Union Ambassador to the United States: Well, thank you for having me.

Nick Schifrin:

Let us begin with Ukraine on this anniversary. The big step that Europe wanted to take today on this anniversary was to send or confirm a big loan to Ukraine and take a further step to punish Russia. But Hungary and Slovakia have blocked that package. Can you overcome those blocks?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Europe actually made the decision, and the leaders a few weeks ago at the European Council made the decision and promised that the loan will be online.

Nick Schifrin:

A $90 billion loan to Ukraine.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Exactly.

Nick Schifrin:

Right.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

And I think that what is most important is that everyone keeps its word. We have to create a space for the leaders to honor their word.

And I'm sure that, by Easter, we will get there, because this is...

Nick Schifrin:

By Easter?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

This is the money which Ukrainians need, not only for their defense, and for making sure that Ukrainian economies get afloat.

Nick Schifrin:

Today, Ukraine's ambassador to the United States revealed what she called a demarche from Washington for a Ukrainian attack on an export terminal in the Black Sea in Russia.

The terminal in Novorossiysk exports not only Russian oil, but also Kazakh oil, and that's operated by a consortium, including Exxon, Chevron, Shell, and others. And Ambassador Stefanishyna said the U.S. told Ukraine not so much to refrain from attacking Russian energy, but to refrain from attacking U.S. interests.

So, we are here in Washington. Do you believe that Washington should be dictating to Ukraine what it can and cannot attack in Russia?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Well, I'm not aware about American contacts with Ukrainians, but let's be clear.

We have an aggressor who actually for the whole winter have been doing nothing less, nothing more, just attacking civilian energy infrastructure. I don't think that there is a conversation happening or should happen how Ukraine should protect itself.

Nick Schifrin:

European intelligence officials I have spoken to recently, and you will know this better than I, have told me and other journalists that Russia is not taking these negotiations seriously.

Is there a fundamentally different assessment between the United States and Europe about how Russia is approaching these negotiations?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

We don't see a good will on Russia, Russian side to really negotiate the peace, because there is no proof whatsoever. One day, you are in a negotiation room, and the same night you actually are bombing energy infrastructure or other kind of civilian infrastructure in Ukraine.

I don't think that this is the proof of the genuine willingness to negotiate.

Nick Schifrin:

Let me switch to tariffs. Of course, on Friday, we got the Supreme Court decision striking down President Trump's tariffs and the deal that the U.S. has made with the European Union. This was largely based on a law called IEEPA.

That is what the Supreme Court said the president could not use. I was told today that the U.S. trade representative, Jamieson Greer, has delivered a message to Europe: If you respect the trade deal, the tariff rate imposed on Europe will not exceed 15 percent, will not exceed the agreed-upon rate.

Is that accurate that the U.S. trade representative has given you that information?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Our commissioner for trade, Sefcovic, had several conversations already with the Ambassador Greer, as well with Secretary Lutnick.

And the one request we had is actually to have as much clarity as possible right now. What we see from the documents is actually 10 percent plus, so-called MFN, which is the...

(Crosstalk)

Nick Schifrin:

Most favored nation, right.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Most favored nation treatment, which is established by World Trade Organization.

If we take 10 percent and this MFN, it's actually -- in some cases, it's lower. In some cases, it's higher than 15 percent.

Nick Schifrin:

Have they guaranteed you that they won't exceed 15 percent?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

I would not want to go into the nitty-gritties. It's still to be seen how it will be implemented.

What is important for us is actually we will honor the deal as much as we can, but the same should be happening on the U.S. side. And the problem what we see is right now is actually that it's temporary and the possible...

(Crosstalk)

Nick Schifrin:

The new tariffs that the president is now citing, he can only have for a small amount of time. They're not allowed to be permanent.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Yes, so it's really, for business, any kind of business, be it on the European side of Atlantic or on the American side of Atlantic, the predictability is the key for how you work.

Nick Schifrin:

Yes.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

And I think that we will not shy away of defending our interests and our companies.

Nick Schifrin:

The European Parliament has paused its approval of the deal from last summer.

Yesterday, President Trump posted on TRUTH Social. He warned countries -- quote -- "not to play games."

Can you guarantee to the administration that you will respect this deal even as the Parliament is trying to push pause?

Jovita Neliupsiene:

I think that our part of the deal, we already implemented part of that. The deal is always two-sided.

You have to have on both sides a clear understanding of what is going to happen. And the European Parliament communicated quite clear, quite openly saying, like, we need clarity. When we have a clarity what is going to happen and how much it will be, what exactly we will be charged, then we can actually proceed, because our part, our regulation is on the table and the Parliament can move.

I do believe that this is a very carefully negotiated deal and it has a value in itself on our side, and we do understand on American side. So we have to do utmost to make sure it stands, because it actually created certain predictability for business.

So now we really have to move and see how we can make it work.

Nick Schifrin:

Ambassador Jovita Neliupsiene, thank you very much.

Jovita Neliupsiene:

Thank you.