Afghan Corruption Complicates U.S. War Review

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• JIM LEHRER:

  That follows Gwen Ifill's look at corruption in Afghanistan.

• GWEN IFILL:

  As President Obama approaches a decision about the U.S. role in Afghanistan, one question looms. Amid the reports of continuing corruption, what kind of partner will Hamid Karzai be?

  Joining us to tackle that question are Mariam Nawabi, an attorney and consultant to organizations doing business in Afghanistan — she was also born there — and Alexander Thier, the director for Afghanistan and Pakistan at the United States Institute of Peace, a nonpartisan group that promotes conflict resolution. He returned from Afghanistan last week.

  So, since you returned from Afghanistan last week, Mr. Thier, let's talk about this. How real are these allegations of corruption?

• J. ALEXANDER THIER:

  They're very real.

  Corruption goes from the highest to the lowest levels in Afghanistan. You hear about problems in corruption at the street level, with people trying to get driver's licenses, going into courts, being asked for bribes, going through roadblocks and things like that. But it also goes to the very highest levels of the government.

• GWEN IFILL:

  Like that $30 million bribe we read into in the paper today.

• J. ALEXANDER THIER:

  That's right. There was also a story going around Kabul last week that a minister of hajj had been $70 million to send Afghans to the pilgrimage to Mecca, and that he had pocketed $20 million of the $70 million.

  You also have reports about other officials and brothers of key officials in Afghanistan who have been skimming off the top. And, so, it's really a problem that goes from top to bottom in Afghanistan. And we need to deal with it at both ends.

• GWEN IFILL:

  Mariam Nawabi, there was a report out this week or last week that said that Afghanistan is now the second most corrupt country in the world, behind Somalia, which doesn't even really have a working central government.

  So, how real is that to you? And who, if that's true, is behind all of this?

  MARIAM NAWABI, legal and business Consultant: Well, that is an indicator after assessments are done on the ground. And it is a real indicator.

  The problem has grown, actually, since 2001, but part of that has been the large influx of foreign aid dollars that have come into Afghanistan, sometimes without the accountability that's needed to monitor that aid. So, part of the problem is also on the contracting system that donors have.

  And then we have the narcotics trade that has been growing since 2001. These are both adding to the corruption problem.