Arizona lawmaker explains why she publicly announced decision to end non-viable pregnancy

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• Amna Nawaz:

  The patchwork landscape of abortion restrictions in a post-Roe America can be both confusing and dangerous. This is true even for some lawmakers, one of whom took to the floor of the Arizona State Senate to describe her own recent experience with a nonviable pregnancy.

• State Sen. Eva Burch (D-AZ):

  After numerous ultrasounds and blood draws, we have determined that my pregnancy is once again not progressing and is not viable. And, once again, I have scheduled an appointment to terminate my pregnancy.

  I don't think people should have to justify their abortions, but I'm choosing to talk about why I made this decision because I want us to be able to have meaningful conversations about the reality of how the work that we do in this body impacts people in the real world.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Eva Burch is the Democratic whip of the Arizona State Senate, and she joins me now.

  Senator Burch, thank you so much for joining us.

  And let me just begin by saying how very sorry we are for your loss.

• State Sen. Eva Burch:

  Thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate the sentiment.

  It's obviously an unfortunate thing to happen, but I'm so glad that I have the opportunity to turn this sad moment into something that's powerful and meaningful and has the opportunity to effect change.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, tell me a little bit about your decision to share that decision publicly. How easy was it to decide to speak out on the floor like that?

• State Sen. Eva Burch:

  Well, of course, it's a complicated decision, but I don't know that it was a difficult decision.

  I started going through this process. And, as I was having my initial consultation where you kind of have to have this counseling in Arizona, it became really clear to me that I was being told who I was in that counseling meeting and that my provider didn't want to say the things that they said.

  And I felt a strong sense of responsibility to take ownership of that back and to tell people who I was, instead of the other way around. I knew I had an opportunity to do that. I know that there is the stigma about who the abortion patient is. And the way that I was being treated was unacceptable to me.

  And I had to speak out about it.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Tell me a little bit about what the reaction has been like from your fellow lawmakers, many of whom may disagree with you on this issue.

• State Sen. Eva Burch:

  I have a lot of respect and appreciation for my fellow lawmakers. I have good relationships with many of my fellow lawmakers on both sides of the aisle.

  But we do have an extremist Republican leadership in the Arizona Senate. And I'm not particularly surprised that I don't think that I was heard by the leadership in the Arizona legislature. But what I do know is that I was heard by so many other people. I have had an overwhelming response of people reaching out to me, telling me their own stories, sharing their experiences.

  And it makes it really clear to me that we're in an environment where people are ready to be heard themselves and they're ready for change.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You did lay out in your speech the multiple steps, as you just mentioned there, that Arizona State law currently requires women to go through to legally get an abortion, including an invasive, vaginal ultrasound that you didn't need.

  But you also said your medical provider was — quote — "forced to tell me multiple things that don't apply to my situation and some that are just transparently factually false."

  What did you mean by that?

• State Sen. Eva Burch:

  Well, several things that were specific to me was that, for example, I was told that adoption was an option for me or that parenting was an option for me.

  I didn't have a viable pregnancy. It's cruel to tell someone that they can be parenting when that's not really an option for them. This was a wanted pregnancy. We would have been very happy to carry a healthy baby to term, but that wasn't in the cards for me.

  I was also told that, if I chose to continue my pregnancy, that the father would have to support me financially, which also wouldn't apply to my situation. I have a very loving and wonderful relationship with my husband, but I certainly don't need to be financially supported in that relationship. And that wasn't a practical application to my situation as well.

  Providers are also forced to talk about the probable anatomical properties of the fetus at the time of the abortion. And, in my case, that also didn't apply. My embryo was dying and was not subject to the probabilities of a healthy pregnancy. And, again, it was just cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

  It was clear to me that it wasn't medical providers, it wasn't experts who were putting this list of counseling together. It was people who were opposed to abortion who were trying to be coercive and convinced me to make a different decision.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Senator Burch, you have made clear your views and your beliefs on this issue. But, as you know, there are many people in Arizona, many people across the entire U.S. who don't share those beliefs. They don't believe that you should have a right to an abortion at all or after a certain point.

  And they may ask, why terminate a pregnancy at all? Why not continue to carry it even if it means miscarrying? What would you say to those people?

• State Sen. Eva Burch:

  Well, I would say that those people should not have an abortion if they feel comfortable and if they would want to carry to term themselves.

  But I would say that people don't have to feel obligated to explain their stories and to explain their situations to others to gain their approval in order to have autonomy over their decision-making and over their health care.

  Now, are there reasons other than a medical necessity or other than a nonviable pregnancy that people get abortions that can make other people uncomfortable? Of course there are. And that would maybe have high disapproval from other individuals? Of course there are.

  But we also have to look at the reality of what the outcomes are for people who seek abortions and are unable to get them. And there are real, serious consequences there as well that should be considered. These patients are more likely to be the victims of domestic violence. They're more likely to be evicted. They're more likely to not be able to afford basic needs for their homes.

  Their living children are less likely to be developing normally. They're more likely to have developmental delays. There are so many consequences that can happen when someone is unable to make a decision for themselves. And I think that we have to allow people to make those decisions, because it usually is the right decision for them.

  The vast majority of patients feel good and confident about the decision that they made. And I think that we have to allow them to do that.

• Amna Nawaz:

  That is Democratic Arizona State Senator Eva Burch joining us tonight.

  Ms. Burch, thank you so much for your time.