Brooks and Capehart on the U.S. retaliation against Iran-backed militants

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• Geoff Bennett:

  Congressional gridlock on key issues like immigration and taxes are being affected by the 2024 presidential race.

  For all of this and more, we turn to the analysis tonight of Brooks and Capehart. That's New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post.

  Good to see you both, as always.

  So, I want to start with your reaction to the U.S. tonight starting a series of military strikes against Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Syria. This response, we should say, is expected to be just the beginning of a longer response.

  David, you first.

• David Brooks:

  I think it was proportionate.

  We have got to do — I think, be strong and show resolve, establish deterrence, establish defense, freedom of the seas. But you don't want to sow chaos. And so I think what the administration has done is hit the Iranian-backed militias without hitting Iran itself, which Lindsey Graham and a lot of other Republicans, I'm sure, will say we should have hit Iran.

  I have become a little suspicious of the idea that in the Middle East you should go out to solve your problem, to seek some permanent solution. And that's what Israel is trying to do with Hamas. Maybe they're right to do it. I think they need to defeat Hamas. But the idea that we can somehow defang Iran all at once, that, to me, would probably not work.

  And so this was a proportionate response.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Jonathan, how do you see it?

• Jonathan Capehart:

  Yes, I agree with David.

  But I also would add that the timing of this, at least the announcement of the strikes happening, is interesting because today we had — excuse me — today, we had the dignified transfer of the bodies of the three American service members who were killed. You had the secretary of defense there on the tarmac for this very solemn ceremony.

  You had the president and the first lady there at Dover Air Force Base for this solemn ceremony, carried — I think it was carried live on television, but it was carried in full when the video came in. The entire nation got to see this. And then the world found out that the United States responded.

  I think that that sort of timing, plus the use of B-1 bombers in this operation, sends a very clear signal to the region, but also to Iran that the United States isn't messing around.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And President Biden and his top aides had been clear they don't want a proxy war with Iran to become a more significant conflict. They don't want to draw the U.S. into a wider war in an already unstable region.

  How do they head off that possibility, when it appears to be inching closer?

• David Brooks:

  With Goldilocks, just right.

  And Iran, to be fair, has sent some messages that we don't want a war right now either. That doesn't mean they won't want it someday. And so the historian Hal Brands had a good essay in "Foreign Affairs" over the last week or two, which said, go back to the 1930s. There were three regional conflicts.

  Japan was sweeping through China. Germany was obviously establishing fascist rule in Central Europe in or Western Europe. And then Italy was trying to establish a fascist empire in Africa. And what happened over the next few years was, those three separate regional conflicts coalesced into one big conflict, which we called World War II.

  And so what we need to prevent is that Iran, China, and Russia will not coalesce into one anti-liberal, completely violent moment. And that's why I think this moment is so fraught. And I think it's why the Biden administration has tried to be strong, but temperate in the middle of it, not to spark that kind of coalescence.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  But also keep in mind that the strikes that have happened tonight, our time, apparently is the beginning of a campaign that the administration has been signaling for a while, that this could be an ongoing campaign that could last weeks, if not longer.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Yes, as one official put it, this is the beginning of the beginning.

  Let's shift our focus to domestic matters, namely, the South Carolina primary tomorrow, the first primary on the Democratic nominating calendar. You might have seen that interview with Congressman Clyburn earlier.

  President Biden is expected to win South Carolina, obviously. But in what way is this a test of his support and enthusiasm, David, moving forward?

• David Brooks:

  Yes, well, and Joe Biden won among young Black adults in 2020 89 percent. Now he's down to 60 percent with young Black adults. So that's a significant loss. That's a lot of people you're losing. So he's got to somehow reestablish that.

  And I was very struck in your interview with how James Clyburn emphasized the student debt issue. And I think that really did turn a lot of the people. I think Gaza has turned a lot of young Black voters. So they have got to win them back. And I think Clyburn put it well, which is that you ask somebody nine months before an election who they're going to vote for, they're not thinking about who they're going to vote for.

  They're thinking, how do I send a message? And so I think a lot of people want to send a message. When they're actually in the voting booth and Donald Trump and Joe Biden are here, it's going to be a very different decision-making process. So we shouldn't confuse polls today from an actual election.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Do Democrats see it that way? I mean, because they have complained for years now as what they see about this disconnect between popular policies, as they say, popular Biden policies and the fact that President Biden isn't getting credit for them.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  Look, if there's anything that viewers should know and understand, if they don't know this already, to David's point about once people get into the voting booth and they have the choice between President Biden and Donald Trump, African American voters are pragmatic voters, probably the most pragmatic voters in the American electorate.

  We're used to not getting everything that we want all the time. And yet, when we go into the voting booth and have to click the lever and vote for someone who we think is going to best protect our families and our interests, that's when the pragmatism kicks in.

  I can understand people being upset about student loan relief, what's happening in Gaza, voting rights, criminal justice reform. But when you're faced with an existential threat like Donald Trump and the damage he could do if he gets another term, Joe Biden looks even better than he does now.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Let's talk about a couple of the legislative priorities that are being affected by this campaign, namely, the tax plan.

  The House voted on Wednesday evening to pass a $78 billion bipartisan tax package that would temporarily expand the child tax credit, restore a number of business taxes — business — or, rather, tax credits for businesses, and the vote was 357 to 70.

  You would be hard-pressed to find 357 members of Congress who agree on what day it is, and yet you had 357 members of Congress agree to move forward with this bill, and yet it might not go anywhere in the Senate, at least not anytime soon.

• David Brooks:

  Yes. And I understand why you don't want to pass somebody that might help your opponent in the fall of an election year, but this is — but we're in the beginning of February.

  So if the entire year, we're not going to pass anything because we might want to help somebody, that seems awfully cynical, especially at a point when one of the issues is a child tax credit, which is a — which, when it was briefly expanded under Biden early in the administration, lifted three million children out of poverty. That's reality.

  And then we may get to it, but the other thing that's sitting there is the — what I think of as the global chaos bill, where we're helping Iran — well, we're helping Ukraine, we're helping Israel to beat Hamas, and we're securing the southern border. And if we're going to tolerate global chaos for another few years because we don't want to help our opponent or ourselves, that's just the obscene politicization of the legislative process.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Well, that seems to be the dynamic with the immigration bill and even with the tax bill.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  Yes.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Senator Chuck Grassley, according to Politico, said the quiet part out loud, that he didn't think it was in Republicans' interests to move forward with this bill that could be a win for President Biden in an election year.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  What it shows is, both between the tax bill and the immigration bill, the tax bill coming out of the — roaring out of the House and being blocked in the Senate by Senator Grassley, the immigration bill in the Senate that no one has seen yet, and yet you have got the speaker of the House and Donald Trump trying to kill it before it gets out, Congress is broken.

  Congress is broken. The House is broken. The Senate is broken.

  And really what we're seeing, to pick up on David's point, it is sort of the — what's the word, metastasization of what happened when Justice Scalia died. President Obama nominates Merrick Garland to be the Supreme Court justice — the Supreme Court nominee, and Senator Mitch McConnell, I think he was majority leader at the time, says, eh — and it was February — no thanks. We should wait for the presidential election.

  Look where we are now, where legislation can't even get out of either chamber because it would give a win to the president, never mind the American — real American people who would be helped by both pieces of legislation getting out and getting to the president's desk for his signature.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Before we wrap up, I want to bring up the focus of Laura Barron-Lopez's report tonight about Taylor Swift being targeted by right-wing talking heads suggesting that she's part of this conspiracy to help President Biden get reelected.

  What is the political utility of targeting the most popular entertainment figure in the world?

• Geoff Bennett:

  (Laughter) Why would Republicans even engage in that enterprise, David?

• David Brooks:

  Yes, when Ronald Reagan was president, the Republican Party had three purposes, to feed communism, defend free market capitalism, and celebrate an America where a wholesome pop star fell in love with an attractive football player.

  Like, this is as Americana as you can imagine. And yet what's happened under Trump is abnormality, like, a detachment from normal American life into conspiracy mongering. And then what's also happened is, you have this entertainment complex of hucksters and showmen who want to generate buzz.

  And what's a better way to generate buzz than attack the NFL and Taylor Swift?

• Geoff Bennett:

  David? I'm sorry. Jonathan.

  (Laughter)

• Jonathan Capehart:

  The types of conspiracy theories that are being thrown around would make Carrie Mathison go, oh, come on.

  I mean, this is insane. I can't help but laugh, to the point of crying, but then crying because this is what's happened to one of the two major political parties in this country, where you have a guy who ran for president, who ran the Republican nomination saying that this is all part of a plot for the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl, so that she could come out on the field and nominate — and endorse the president with — people, just pass the immigration bill.

  (Laughter)

• Jonathan Capehart:

  Pass the tax bill. And let's have a real conversation, instead of doing this hucksterism and nonsense that's happening on the right.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And not for nothing, David Brooks, I hear you're a bit of a Taylor Swift fan.

• David Brooks:

  I like early Taylor better than late Taylor.

  Yes, no, sometimes…

  (Crosstalk)

• Geoff Bennett:

  Favorite song and favorite lyric.

• David Brooks:

  Well, sometimes, she just touches me. She speaks for me. Like, she wears short skirts. I wear T-shirts.

  (Laughter)

• David Brooks:

  She's the captain. I'm on the bleachers dreaming of a time when you will wake up and find that what you're waiting for has been here the whole time, and story of my life.

  But I will say, my favorite lyric is — I'm getting carried away here.

  (Laughter)

• Geoff Bennett:

  No, please continue. Continue.

  (Crosstalk)

• Geoff Bennett:

  I feel like I know you better.

• David Brooks:

  On her last album, she's got a lyric, my covert narcissism disguised as altruism, like some kind of congressman.

  That is a great lyric. It shows she's been talking to Lisa Desjardins or something.

  (Laughter)

• David Brooks:

  She knows how — congressmen, how their narcissism displays itself.

  So I will vote for anybody Taylor tells me to. So…

• Geoff Bennett:

  Jonathan, do you have a favorite lyric or…

• Jonathan Capehart:

  I do not.

• Geoff Bennett:

  OK.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  I'm more of a Beyonce guy.

  (Laughter)

• Geoff Bennett:

  All right.

  Well, on that note, Jonathan Capehart and David Brooks, thank you both.

• David Brooks:

  Thank you.

• Jonathan Capehart:

  Thanks, Geoff.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Have a good weekend.