Brooks and Capehart on Trump's threats against Minnesota and Greenland

Amna Nawaz:

Well, it's been a busy week for President Trump, flexing his power at home and abroad.

To discuss, we turn now to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MS NOW.

It's good to see you both.

And I want to start with a little bit of news, Jonathan, that we just got moments ago. There are now reports the Department of Justice is issuing criminal subpoenas for Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey. We understand part of that is for what they're said is impeding law enforcement.

As you well know, this comes against the backdrop of ICE agents on the ground as part of President Trump's immigration crackdown, protests on the ground in response to their presence. What's your reaction to the latest?

Jonathan Capehart:

Well, the president warned that retribution was coming to Minnesota in -- just a couple of days ago, if not yesterday. Time is elastic these days, so not surprising, but also interesting coming from an administration that campaigned on how the previous administration was weaponizing the Justice Department against him and against people like him.

And, instead, what we have seen from President Trump is a weaponization of the Department of Justice. Now it's Governor Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Frey, but also New York attorney General Letitia James, former FBI Director James Comey, the six Democratic members of the House and the Senate that did the video telling service members what they already know, which is, they are not -- they do not have to follow unlawful or illegal orders.

So I think that the governor and the mayor probably saw this coming a mile away, because, again, we're dealing with the president who has made it very clear in word and in deed that he will go after people he does not like.

Amna Nawaz:

David, we have seen tensions only rising on the ground in Minneapolis. We saw Governor Walz publicly come out and call for a lowering of the temperature, telling the protesters, don't take the bait, don't be violent, even as the administration says it's going to surge more agents.

Criminal subpoenas for the state and city leaders, does that lower the temperature?

David Brooks:

Not exactly.

We're coming close to something like an armed occupation of an American state by the American federal government. There are 3,000 ICE officers in Minneapolis, which is like five times the number of police officers. And they are behaving with reckless and violent abandon.

Barack Obama deported three million people during the course of his administration. He didn't do it this way. He did it with people who were just coming over the border or people who were criminals. He didn't go into homes and terrorized children, disallow moms whose sons are dying from cancer from seeing their kids, breaking up families, doing sort of ethnic investigations into people's neighbors, using these hand grenades, flash hand grenades.

It's just an -- it's an unprecedented -- and I don't know if unprecedented is the right word, but it could be. George H.W. Bush used the Insurrection Act in 1992 in California, but he did it with the presence of Pete Wilson, the governor there, with the local -- the cooperation of the local officials.

This is completely different. This is something that is turning up the pressure, and I think Governor Walz is right. I'm not a huge fan, but the protesters are turning up the tension on the ICE officers. And if -- so long as they do it nonviolently, then Americans will see what is going on in their country.

And I have long thought, if Americans see deportations of respectable families, they will finally rebel against this regime, and not just the progressives and not just Democrats, but normal people who are like, what the heck is going on here?

And so that's where we're headed.

Amna Nawaz:

Jonathan, when we look at where we're headed, the president is threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act, which he has done before, at least threatened to.

Where's the off-ramp? How do you see this unfolding?

Jonathan Capehart:

I'm not sure there is an off-ramp.

Look, when I talked to Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison last may in the run-up to the fifth anniversary of the murder of George Floyd, we just had a regular conversation about his reflections on the time. And there was something lurking in the back of my mind that I did not ask him, but he brought up voluntarily.

And that was that people needed to be mindful that the president of the United States was itching for a reason to invoke the Insurrection Act. Now, one of the theories was that he would -- there was a rumor going around that the president was considering a pardon of Derek Chauvin, the former police officer who murdered George Floyd, and what that would do to Minneapolis, what that would do to people around the country if that were to happen.

And so his big fear was that a reaction from folks in Minneapolis would spark -- give the president the reason. Here we are six or so months later, and we're at a situation where, at the president's instigation, to David's point, they're going to be about 3,000 -- let me -- I have my notes here.

Yes, about 3,000 federal agents in a city that only has about 500 to 600 Minneapolis police officers. Why do that if what you really want is to fight crime or get the worst of the worst out? No, the videos that we are seeing coming out of Minneapolis are heartrending.

This is not about deporting the worst of the worst. This isn't even about getting out the people in the country who have crossed over illegally. This is terrorizing not just the immigrant community, both undocumented and documented. It's about terrorizing Minneapolis writ large.

And the wonderful thing -- I went to college in Minnesota, and the wonderful thing to see is that the folks of Minnesota, and particularly Minneapolis, are not going to let this happen to them and their communities without them trying to hold these people accountable.

Amna Nawaz:

We started this conversation,Jonathan, by saying the president's flexing his power at home and abroad. I want to turn to the rest of the world stage.

And grant me a moment here just to put some of the headlines together that we had to cover this week. We saw the Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, come to the White House, gift her Nobel Peace Prize to President Trump, all while the Trump administration still seems to be backing the former Maduro vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, back in Venezuela.

We're now two weeks into running this country, and now we hear the president talking about taking over Greenland, which is controlled by a NATO ally in the form of Denmark. We also saw officials from there visiting this week.

Just give me a moment and react to what we're seeing in terms of the president's expansionist rhetoric here.

Jonathan Capehart:

He doesn't care. He doesn't care about what's happening on the streets of an American city. And he certainly doesn't care about the NATO alliance. Otherwise, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing with Greenland.

When it comes to Venezuela, this idea of you're going to take out the regime, but what that meant was you only took out the head. You're leaving everybody else in, but we know what it was for. In Venezuela, it's the oil. In Greenland, it's about the rare earth minerals that might be needed, that American industry needs for all sorts of purposes.

The president, in the end, is only thinking about himself. This isn't about America first. This is about Donald Trump and his interests first. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in Venezuela the way we are. Otherwise, we wouldn't be threatening a NATO ally the way we are.

If he follows through on what he -- on his threats, the Western alliance that the United States gave blood, sweat, and tears to form and develop and maintain will come crumbling down.

Amna Nawaz:

I just want to note for viewers, too, we're having some technical issues with David Brooks' audio, which is why I haven't turned to him for a question. As soon as we have him, I will bring him back in.

But, Jonathan, it gives me a chance to ask you another question about this, which is, Machado clearly sees her path to the Venezuelan presidency through Washington. Greenlandic, Danish officials see that the path to peace also comes through Washington.

Did the visits this week in the White House make any difference?

Jonathan Capehart:

We will see.

I mean, I think, in the short term, no. It's really sad, Amna, really, really sad that the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize felt compelled to -- first, she dedicated the prize to him when she found out that she won. Now she's giving it to him. And he gleefully accepted it. What in the petulant child is this?

And then for Danish and Greenlandic officials to come to the United States, come to the White House for meeting, basically pleading for their own safety, pleading for their own sovereignty, and leaving without much to show for it, we have seen this movie play out before. We don't know how any of this is going to turn out, because I quite honestly don't think the president knows how it's going to turn out.

This is a guy who lives day-to-day. There's no long term strategic plan, beyond give me the oil in Venezuela, give me the rare earth minerals in Greenland, give me that Nobel Peace Prize.

Amna Nawaz:

Lot of headlines around the world, here at home this week. I wish we had more time to talk about it all. I have a feeling we're going to continue to cover these in the days and weeks ahead.

Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, my thanks to you both.

Jonathan Capehart:

Thanks, Amna.