Capehart and Abernathy on congressional bipartisanship, inflation, redistricting

Judy Woodruff:

As President Biden prepares to sign the infrastructure bill into law on Monday, and the first electoral redistricting maps are being passed in states across the country, many Americans have turned their focus to the rising cost of goods, from food to gasoline.

Here to discuss all this and more, we are joined by Capehart and Abernathy. That is Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post, and Gary Abernathy, an Ohio-based writer and contributing columnist also for The Washington Post.

David Brooks is away.

It's very good to see both you on this Friday.

Jonathan Capehart:

You, too, Judy.

Gary Abernathy:

You too.

Judy Woodruff:

So, at a time when we don't see, Jonathan, a lot of bipartisanship in this city, there was a bipartisan vote after we finished our conversation last Friday night, passing, and it is headed to the president.

But we have to point out most Republicans ended up in the House voting against it. And then you had President Trump saying he was ashamed of — that the 13 Republicans who voted for it should be ashamed of themselves. So how bipartisan was it?

Jonathan Capehart:

Well, it was bipartisan, in that you did have 13 Republicans vote for it.

And at a time when we don't see this sort of thing anymore, that should be applauded, especially now that those 13 are getting threats. They're getting threatened. Their committee assignments are being threatened. Some are getting death threats. One of their colleagues called them traitors for voting for something that generations of Republicans have supported, even the former president, even Donald Trump.

What was the big joke? Infrastructure week was every week during the Trump administration. He talked about it all the time. And yet, now that it's happening in the Biden administration, it's something that's bad. This is a great thing for the country.

Judy Woodruff:

How — and how bipartisan?

Is it a great thing and how bipartisan was it truly?

Gary Abernathy:

It should have been much more bipartisan. Should have had many more Republican votes.

It was a great thing, long overdue. I don't like the price tag. A trillion dollars is an awful lot of money. But we have to understand it's been years and years where we have neglected this. And so this is money we should have been spending all along.

I think a lot of Republicans were conditioned against it because, for so long, it was yoked to the other bill. It was yoked to the Build Back Better bill. And so they felt like a victory for one was going to lead to a victory for the other. And the Build Back Better bill is an entirely different animal.

But when they uncoupled that, when Nancy Pelosi uncoupled that from the other bill, Republicans should have really voted for this a lot more than they did. So I think it's very disappointing.

And Jonathan's exactly right. President Trump was an advocate for the infrastructure spending when he was in office. And it's a bit hypocritical to be against it now.

Judy Woodruff:

Well, speaking of lack of partisanship or lack of bipartisanship, this was a week for some pretty ugly rhetoric, Jonathan.

We had congressman Paul Gosar of Arizona posting this video, a cartoon of him killing another member of Congress, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And then you had — and he said it was all about her position immigration.

And then, separately, we have this new audio recording of President Trump defending the crowd back in January in the attack on the Capitol saying "Hang Mike Pence," his own vice president. And his argument is, well, this is just common sense. They were angry. They were worked up.

Where are with all this? Is there any turning back?

Jonathan Capehart:

I don't know if there's any turning back.

Excuse me, Judy.

And I say I don't know if there's any turning back because there is an incredible silence among Republican leaders. Leave aside Donald Trump. And no one's surprised to hear him say what he said about "Hang Mike Pence."

The problem is in the question is, where is House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy? Leader is in his title. He should have said something immediately about Congressman Gosar. He should have said something immediately about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene calling the 13 Republicans who voted for the infrastructure bill — quote — "traitors."

He should have been out there and should be continuously out there saying: This is not who we are as Republicans. This is not who we are as a party. This is not who we are as a caucus.

Because, if the leader of the caucus doesn't set an example, rhetorically or even by his actions, then the Paul Gosar and the Marjorie Taylor Greenes are given, no pun intended, green lights to keep doing the things that they're doing, which is providing — creating an atmosphere of menace around the Capitol that has been there since January 6.

Congresswoman Cori Bush moved her office from next door to Marjorie Taylor Greene because of the menace. Marjorie Taylor Greene has gotten into fights with Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, Congresswoman Liz Cheney, Congressman Jamie Raskin.

And she's able to do that because House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy hasn't said anything. And the idea that he has not said anything about this Paul Gosar video that Twitter had the good sense to finally take down tells me all I need to know about how fearful and concerned we should be about a Speaker McCarthy if the Republicans take control of the House in next term — in next year's midterms.

Judy Woodruff:

Gary, who is responsible for this?

And is — do you see a turning back from this kind of language?

Gary Abernathy:

I think — I hope they're a turning back.

And I think that it needs to come from everybody in Congress saying, wait a minute. I'm in the United States Congress. I'm not a 12-year-old playing some kind of video game here.

But I don't want to be accused of both-sider-ism here. And I will be anyway. But I do think it — I think back to a lot of the memes and so on that members of the Democratic Party were retweeting about Donald Trump when he was in office that are pretty disgusting.

I think of Nancy Pelosi after Trump finishes a State of the Union address dramatically ripping up the pages of his address. These are all things that we should be a little bit better than that in Congress. These are members of the United States Congress who should not be engaging in these kinds of 12-year-old antics.

Jonathan Capehart:

Gary, there's a big difference between…

Gary Abernathy:

There is a big difference.

Jonathan Capehart:

… standing up at the end of the president's speech and ripping it because a lot — I remember that speech. There was a lot in it to be angry about in terms of who we are as an American people.

There's big difference between that and a member of Congress putting out an anime video, superimposing the face of someone from the opposing party, where that person is killed.

Gary Abernathy:

Yes. And I…

Jonathan Capehart:

Also, we didn't mention how — that there was also the figure with the president's face who was also attacked in that video.

That's not the same thing.

Gary Abernathy:

I'm condemning all of it, Jonathan. I agree with you on that.

But I'm saying that, if you think that it's just all one way, that's what I will disagree with.

Judy Woodruff:

And turning back, you're saying you hope, you hope.

Gary Abernathy:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

Totally changing the subject, inflation.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:

We got some bad numbers this week about how fast it's rising in the country.

Jonathan, it's bad news for all Americans. And, politically, it's not good news for the president. What are his options when it comes to this?

Jonathan Capehart:

Gosh, when it comes to inflation, I am not sure.

I mean, one thing we — all of us around this table know, and that most Americans don't or understandably don't care, the president doesn't have any control over the economy. Presidents can crow about great unemployment numbers, and folks will give them credit. Folks will complain about bad unemployment numbers and folks will give — will be angry with them.

People will be angry with the president because inflation is high. They're seeing it at the gas pump. They're seeing it in the grocery aisle. They're seeing it at — with furniture stores and new and used cars.

I don't know what the president can do that is going to squash this. This is the highest it's been year to year in 30 years. And what actually makes this even more concerning is that, while the president is saying, oh, this is temporary, meaning maybe six months or so, but this is not in isolation only in the United States.

Twenty-four hours after the U.S. announced its inflation number, so did Japan and China. They also had spikes, Japan the highest in 40 years. So this is a problem for the president. It is.

Judy Woodruff:

What are…

(CROSSTALK)

Gary Abernathy:

It is a problem.

And I'm going to disagree that there's nothing the president can do. I think one thing you can do immediately is not spend another $2 trillion that we don't have. It's kind of economics 101 that one thing that leads to inflation is devaluing the dollar.

And when you're spending trillions of dollars — let me be fair, though. It wasn't just a Democratic thing. The Republicans did this last year too, I mean, in the response to COVID, which a lot of us feel like was an over-response and a lot of spending that didn't need to be done because there were a lot of shutdowns that should have been more targeted than just shutting everything down and then spending trillions we didn't have to make up for it.

But the Republicans were all in on this too last year, OK? So I'm not giving them a pass. But when you spend money that we don't have, when you say I want to spend another $2 trillion, that pushes inflation. That raises prices. That's going to make inflation even worse.

Jonathan Capehart:

But let's not — let's also not forget that there are supply chain issues involved, which have nothing to do…

Judy Woodruff:

Ships backed up in port.

Jonathan Capehart:

Right, ships backed up in port, but, also, because of the pandemic, shortages in labor, in having people who can take things off those ships. So that's part of it.

Judy Woodruff:

And we reported today a record number of people quitting their jobs again last month…

Gary Abernathy:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

… which may have something to do with it.

Jonathan Capehart:

Yes.

Gary Abernathy:

Well, people are quitting because their — because jobs are so plentiful. So they have choices.

So I read a — I think a Post story today about this, how people are quitting in part because they can go get a better job somewhere else. And so they're doing it.

Jonathan Capehart:

I mean, yes and no.

I mean, lots of people are quitting their jobs, but there's a labor shortage. I mean, where the jobs are, are where most people don't want to go, it seems.

Judy Woodruff:

Last thing I want to bring up, we're not going to be able to cover it in two minutes, but it is redistricting.

Infamously, after there's a census, we — every state has to redraw the lines for congressional and legislative districts.

Jonathan, just quickly, it's been — there's been a lot of partisan gerrymandering, districts that don't really reflect where people live. Is it going to get any better this year, or what are we headed for?

Jonathan Capehart:

No, it's not going to get any better this year, because this happens every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is a bipartisan effort. Republicans, if they're in control, they draw lines that favor their candidates. If Democrats are in the majority, they draw lines that favor their candidates.

What would help this is if Congress would pass — would have passed the original Freedom to Vote Act, which would have set up nonpartisan district commissions. But that went down in a ball of flames.

Gary Abernathy:

Yes, I'm someone that always says there's no really such thing as a nonpartisan committee, commission, anything like that.

This does happen every 10 years. I will say this. Every 10 years — now, if you look at every two years, yes, there's about a 90 percent reelection rate in Congress, but, every 10 years, there's a huge turnaround. We have the most diverse Congress we have ever had now. We have more women in Congress than we have ever had before.

So it does change, despite everyone's best efforts to keep things the same.

Judy Woodruff:

Your state of Ohio, today, somebody sent me some numbers this afternoon; 54 percent of the vote Republicans won over the last decade, and yet they occupy 75 percent of the congressional seats.

Gary Abernathy:

And that's because they win the key seats to get to draw the districts.

(LAUGHTER)

Gary Abernathy:

So every — I remember back in the '80s being an Ohioan when the Democrats controlled all those key seats, and they drew the districts to gerrymander for Democrats.

So, to the winner goes the spoils. And that's the ability to draw districts.

Judy Woodruff:

We're watching it.

Gary Abernathy, Jonathan Capehart, thank you both.

Gary Abernathy:

Thank you, Judy.

Jonathan Capehart:

Thanks, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:

Appreciate it.