Ex-DOJ official weighs in on Trump pressuring Bondi to prosecute political opponents

Geoff Bennett:

And, for more now, we're joined by Mary McCord. She's a former acting assistant attorney general for national security and was a longtime prosecutor. She's now executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection at Georgetown Law.

Thank you so much for being here.

Mary McCord, Former Justice Department Official:

My pleasure.

Geoff Bennett:

So the president publicly calling on Attorney General Pam Bondi to take more aggressive action in prosecuting his political opponents, what does that signal about the extraordinary pressures on the DOJ right now? And how should we understand the moment that we're in?

Mary McCord:

Yes, so I actually testified on the second day of Pam Bondi's confirmation hearings to make three points.

Geoff Bennett:

That's right.

Mary McCord:

I didn't know her personally, but the points were, your oath is to the Constitution and not to a person, and that means your decisions should be made based on the facts and the law and not based on what Donald Trump is telling you or wants you to do, that you should recuse yourself if there's ever a conflict, and that there needs to be independence between the Department of Justice and the White House.

And that's been something that every single president and attorney general have believed in since Watergate. There have been policies through every single president, including under Mr. Trump the first time around, that says the White House is not going to give directions about criminal and civil enforcement actions to the attorney general, and not going to reach out and try to tell prosecutors or U.S. attorneys like Mr. Siebert what to do.

And so this is the time for Attorney General Bondi to stand strong and stick with these principles of independence. That's how we would have confidence as the American public that the department is not being misused for political purposes.

Geoff Bennett:

And President Trump is nothing if not transparent. Is it significant that this is happening all out in the open, as opposed to behind closed doors? Does that change the way we should understand the degree to which he's applying pressure here?

Mary McCord:

So that's such an interesting question, because, in the past, like, in the cases that were brought against him, that was one of the points he tried to make. How could I ever be doing anything sort of corruptly when I was doing it so publicly?

But that just doesn't really work here. And what we saw with him directing his attorney general to do something, these people are guilty as heck, how can he say that, right? We have a presumption of innocence. There's only allegations. And so this is not some time where I think he can say, look, I'm being transparent, because the transparency shows how much he is in fact trying or attempting to use his Department of Justice for strictly political and retaliatory purposes.

Geoff Bennett:

Let's talk about Lindsey Halligan. This is the Trump White House aide, loyal ally. She's just taken over as the top federal prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia after her predecessor, as we mentioned, was forced out under pressure to indict New York Attorney General Letitia James.

We should say Halligan has no experience as a prosecutor. What's your reaction to this move to install her?

Mary McCord:

Well, this looks like somebody — and you can see it from Donald Trump's message to Attorney General Bondi in that longer piece that the whole thing wasn't read earlier. He's like, Halligan likes you. We're going to put her in there.

He clearly thinks she's somebody who is going to do what he wants. And you know what? She doesn't have the experience. Erik Siebert has years of experience. Other prosecutors who get appointed those positions, first of all, are probably concerned about their ethics, professional responsibility, their careers, their oath to the Constitution, not to a person. But they also know criminal law and they know what they can prove in court and what they can't.

And by all accounts, what's been publicly reported, Mr. Siebert's decision-making here that there was no "there" there when it came to prosecutions of Letitia James or James Comey was, we don't have a criminal case. We cannot meet every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't know that Lindsey Halligan even knows how to weigh those things.

Geoff Bennett:

There is so much news to cover, including what MSNBC first reported, that, in this undercover operation last year, the FBI recorded Tom Homan, who's now the White House immigration czar, accepting $50,000 in cash after suggesting he could help these undercover government — undercover agents posing as business executives to secure government contracts in a second Trump administration.

The Justice Department shut down the case earlier this year. The White House today said, well, Homan never accepted the cash. How unusual is it for a case like this not to be prosecuted?

Mary McCord:

So, with respect to the explanation that he never accepted the cash, I will note that the reporters who reported the story say that they have got documentation that shows he did accept that cash, so that's a factual issue.

And I think what's unusual here is not so much whether it would be prosecuted, but whether it would be continued to be investigated, because at the time he accepted this money or allegedly accepted this money, he was not yet a public official. So, like, the bribery statutes, the gratuity statutes require the person to either be the public official or have been selected to be the official and not yet be the official.

Now, I will note, even the White House is saying the FBI knew he was going to be a public official under the Trump administration. So, question if we aren't at that point of selected, but not yet the public official.

But so, ordinarily, I think what you would see happening here is what I think the FBI was doing, which is, OK, now let's wait and see if, when he becomes a public official, he's going to continue this behavior. And that's when it got squashed.

There are possible criminal charges that could have been brought even before that, including conspiracy and wire fraud and those kind of things. But I can — if I were in the position of the FBI or the prosecutor working with them in — last September, I would have also said, OK, let's see how this plays out. But, of course, we're not going to see how that plays out.

Geoff Bennett:

Indeed.

Mary McCord, thanks, as always. Good to see you.

Mary McCord:

My pleasure. Thank you.