Ex-Trump White House attorney calls Comey’s indictment ‘un-American and despicable’

Geoff Bennett:

For more on the indictment and its implications, we're joined now by Ty Cobb. He was a White House attorney in the first Trump administration, managing the response to the special counsel Robert Mueller's probe into alleged Russian election interference.

Thanks for being with us.

Ty Cobb, Former White House Special Counsel:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Geoff Bennett:

And I want to start with your reaction to the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey and to the way these charges were brought, both the substance and the process.

Ty Cobb:

So I think the process is more important than the substance.

This process was worse than unusual. It was wholly un-American and really despicable in the way it was done. America's long been a country where evenhanded justice has been the standard and the goal. And that's all been abandoned under this president and his willing assistant attorney general.

Keep in mind that career prosecutors, including a seasoned prosecutor of Trump's own appointment as the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District OF Virginia, had concluded at the end of a long process, along with the FBI, that there were — there was just insufficient evidence with which to proceed against the former FBI director, Mr. Comey.

In response, Trump fired that prosecutor, according to him — the prosecutor says he resigned — and ordered, in no uncertain terms, his attorney general to punish his enemies, not just Mr. Comey, but Senator Schiff and Attorney General Letitia James, saying that these people had tortured him, he'd been wronged badly, and it was time for — time for them to be punished now.

And that historically is not the way America works. Now, that's the way Allende's Chile worked, Stalin's Russia worked, Hitler's Germany worked, but it's not the way America works. It's not the role of an attorney general to do what the president orders him to do in criminal matters.

Attorney generals with character, historically, Elliot Richardson, and then his deputy William Ruckelshaus, had the appropriate response when President Nixon tried to strong-arm them into firing the then-independent counsel, Archibald Cox, and they said no and were forced to resign. They honored their oath to the Constitution.

As we saw, sadly, at the great hall of justice shortly after Trump's inauguration, when Pam Bondi took over, she pledged the fealty of herself and her department to the president, rather than the Constitution. And that, sadly, is the way this is gone.

So I don't think this can be reported as one or two degrees of standard deviation from the norm. This is a wholesale 180 from the norms of what made America different from Third World dictatorships, authoritarian regimes and tyranny. I think this case could well be dismissed because of vindictive prosecution standards or selective prosecution standards or prosecutorial misconduct standards.

Geoff Bennett:

How do you assess the way President Trump in his second term has asserted control over the Justice Department and many of the prosecutors who work for it, as compared to the first term?

Ty Cobb:

Well, he appointed people who were clearly slavishly devoted to him and willing to break any ethical barriers or legal barriers to do his bidding.

That's much different than the first time, where Senator Sessions was the first attorney general and Bill Barr is his successor. People can quarrel with some of their decisions and some of their policies, but I don't think they can quarrel about the fact that they were men who had devoted themselves to public service over a long period of time and cared greatly about their country.

Here, what we have is people who care less about their country and certainly less about the Constitution and more about their standing with the president, whose crippling narcissism dictates his every whim, including this vengeance tirade that he's on in the Eastern District.

Geoff Bennett:

You worked closely with President Trump, as we mentioned, when he pushed for something that was clearly outside of the bounds of established norms. How did those conversations typically unfold in the White House?

Ty Cobb:

Well, I can't really go into my direct interactions with the president on legal matters. That would be inappropriate.

But I can say that the difference between the people that were in the White House when I was there and what appears to be going on now is, when he wanted to take a particular course of action, if it wasn't appropriate or if it was unwise, unethical or wrong, there were people who would say that to him.

He had very strong, capable people who were experienced in government, knew government much better than he did, and acted as an inappropriate restraint when he suggested something that they perceived as perhaps out of bounds or inappropriate. I think now what you have is, whatever his narcissistic whim may be, vengeance, power, war crimes, whatever, people just say yes. You know, how quickly can we get that done for you, sir?

So, I think that's a much different circumstance than what we see now.

Geoff Bennett:

I have to ask, did you feel this way about the president when you worked for him, or has there been a fundamental change?

Ty Cobb:

No, I was never a Trump supporter. I never voted for Trump. I took the position because I was asked to serve the country and the president at the time in a matter where I thought, because of my strong relationship and long friendship with Bob Mueller, together, we could find a path that would not divide the country through what was going to be a difficult time. And I think we got that done, largely.

But, no, I was not an ideological match for the president, and I was not a personal supporter. But I'm very concerned. And, frankly, I don't understand how anybody who cares about the country could not be concerned about the attacks on the rule of law, which has been so diminished now in our country, and to the point that it's a danger to not just Trump's enemies, but to all of us, as he picks winners and losers.

I mean, Tom Homan went to McDonald's today and presumably spent some of the cash that he got as a bribe, and there are no consequences for that. And even the White House press secretary lies on his behalf, insisting he didn't take the money, even though he's on tape taking the money.

And, instead, James Comey is preparing for his arraignment. And that, I think, is — I think that people should understand how wrong that is.

Geoff Bennett:

The president, as we know, prizes personal loyalty above all. What's the red line that even loyalists should not cross, and how should they defend that boundary?

Ty Cobb:

Well, I think the red line is really established for many of these people by the oath that they take.

Not everybody takes an oath to be federal employee, but, certainly, the attorney general, FBI agents, prosecutors, Cabinet officials and others have taken an oath to either defend and protect or preserve and defend the Constitution. And that should be their line. And the Constitution requires a loyalty to a set of principles that have been abandoned by this administration.

Geoff Bennett:

Ty Cobb, thank you for your perspectives and for your time this evening.

Ty Cobb:

My pleasure. Good luck. Thank you.