Foreign policy experts offer views on Trump administration’s student activist crackdown

Geoff Bennett:

Late yesterday, a federal judge ordered the Justice Department to restore the revoked visas of a Mexican student and a British student and issued a temporary restraining order preventing their deportations.

It's the latest case of international students targeted by the Trump administration's crackdown. According to immigration attorneys, over 1,000 student visas have been revoked this year, as the Trump State Department argues that some students' actions threaten U.S. foreign policy interests.

Nick Schifrin has more on the policy and its implications.

Nick Schifrin:

When Mahmoud Khalil, a Palestinian student activist at Columbia University, was arrested in early March, the Justice Department submitted a brief that included a memo signed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

He wrote — quote — "An alien is deportable from the United States if the secretary of state has reasonable ground to believe that the alien's presence or activities in the U.S. would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States."

Rubio wrote that Khalil and another unnamed fellow green card holder's public actions and continued presence undermine U.S. policy to combat antisemitism around the world and in the United States, in addition to efforts to protect Jewish students.

It's unclear how many cases the State Department has invoked foreign policy when it comes to visa revocations or deportations, but it's also cited in court documents filed in the case of Yunseo Chung, a green card holder originally from South Korea who, like Khalil, protested the war in Gaza on Columbia University's campus.

Last month, Rubio said this when asked why the State Department was taking these steps:

Marco Rubio, U.S. Secretary of State: I don't care what movement you're involved in. Why would any country in the world allow people to come and disrupt? We gave you a visa to come and study and get a degree, not to become a social activist that tears up our university campuses.

And if we have given you a visa and then you decide to do that, we're going to take it away. It might be more than 300 at this point. We do it every day. Every time I find one of these lunatics, I take away their visa.

Nick Schifrin:

To discuss these visa revocations and attempted deportations and their link to foreign policy, we get two views.

Chad Wolf is the executive vice president of the America First Policy Institute and the former acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the first Trump administration. And Richard Haass is the president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations and author of the weekly Substack Home & Away.

Richard Haass, Chad Wolf, thank you very much. Welcome to the "News Hour."

Richard Haass, let me start with you.

Do you believe it is in the U.S. foreign policy interest to revoke these visas and possibly deport these student activists?

Richard Haass, President Emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations: As a rule, no.

Foreign students, we have about a million of them in the country right now. They contribute to the economy if they stay here. There's a lot of Fortune 100 companies that began because of international students. If they become elites in their country, then we have pro-American elites. They also contribute financially to American colleges and universities. They're central to the business model.

So I think this is a win-win-win situation. And I think we interfere with this program really at our peril. And coming back to what mar was saying, if American foreign policy is that fragile that the comments of a couple of kids on campuses is going to somehow jeopardize American foreign policy, then we have got much bigger problems than a few international students.

Last I checked, we won the Cold War, we won the Gulf War, and we have had a lot of other accomplishments in the world, despite the fact that we have had some critical voices in international students. So let's not overreact to what is a really, really small issue.

Nick Schifrin:

Are the comments, Chad Wolf, are the actions of foreign students a threat to U.S. foreign policy?

Chad Wolf, Former Acting U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security: Well, look, I think they can be.

Again, we're talking about — and I think you heard Secretary Rubio talk about maybe 300 students that he's revoked out of one million. So we're not talking about half. We're talking about less than half of a percent. DHS certainly has a right to remove students from the United States. I think it's important to remember that a student visa is a benefit that the United States government provides that individual to come over here and study.

It's not a right. You have to adhere to certain requirements in order to maintain your visa and stay here in the United States. And if government officials like Secretary Rubio determine that you have violated the requirements of that student visa, then, absolutely, if you want to continue to support, openly support a foreign terrorist organization, well, guess what? You're not going to do that from the United States. You're going to do it elsewhere.

Nick Schifrin:

Richard Haass, take those points on. It's a small percentage of these students. And as Chad Wolf just said and as Rubio has alleged, these students are described as supporting Hamas, even though they describe themselves as protesting Israel.

Richard Haass:

To be critical of Israel does not make one an antisemite, even to be sympathetic for various Palestinian movements. I draw the line of support for violence, for raising money for organizations like Hamas. They cross that line, we have ways of dealing for it.

Indeed, we have two systems here for dealing with it. One is the American legal system. If someone crosses lines — and I would say this would apply to anyone, an American citizen or an international student — we have ways of dealing with it.

But, secondly, the colleges and universities have their own codes of conduct, and they have due process they can offer, and then they have remedies. But, otherwise, I think we have got to have a fairly open idea about free speech. And, again, American foreign policy can handle even the jaundiced views, however we might find them objectionable, of some international students.

Nick Schifrin:

Chad Wolf, why should the U.S. government, why should the secretary of state be involved in this, when there are instances of due process of the courts taking this up, or, in fact, the universities themselves?

Chad Wolf:

Well, sure, again, this isn't about free speech. This is about a line that is crossed when individuals — individuals can go out there and then criticize President Trump. They can criticize any politician for almost any reason.

But when they advocate for support for a terrorist organization, that is where I think the majority of the Americans, certainly President Trump and his team say that is a line too far. And this idea that we're going to let higher ed kind of police themselves, I think most Americans would say that's absolutely a joke.

We saw where Columbia and Harvard and all these folks, they weren't doing anything while Jewish students were absolutely afraid to go out of their dorms and onto these campuses. It's been clear that these schools cannot police themselves. So don't think that this is the first time that we're removing students out of the U.S. It's certainly not. Obviously, these are higher-profile cases, so they're garnering a lot more attention.

Nick Schifrin:

Richard Haass, is there a question of these campuses being able to do this?

Richard Haass:

Well, after October 7, 2023, I think we saw in many campuses, including Columbia, that the universities were not handling it right. And the interests and rights and safety of Jewish students and other students, for that matter, was compromised.

Since then, there's been an awful lot of learning and an awful lot of reform on campuses. The question that where the line to be drawn, at what point does anti-Zionism become antisemitism, that's a big conversation. And it's not necessarily one I think the secretary of state ought to be spending his time working on.

Again, that I think is for campuses. And it's really a larger conversation in this country about what is legitimate criticism of Israel and where does criticism of Israel cross the line and it becomes illegitimate?

Nick Schifrin:

And finally, Chad Wolf, in the time we have left, are there any questions for you on due process in this case? Khalil, some of these others who are specifically named by Rubio have said that they themselves committed no violence, they don't support Hamas, they were only protesting Israeli actions.

Chad Wolf:

What I have found in many of these cases is there's more information that's not in the public domain, the background on these individuals, what they did in their home countries, their associations, and other things that are at play here that U.S. law enforcement is looking at, DHS is looking at, as they take these certain actions to remove these individuals.

There's a lot of work that goes into each of these. It's not just, hey, we see someone making public comments on TV. Let's go remove them. But, surely, if anyone questions that, they should have their right to say, hey, you're saying this person needs to be removed. I'm not that person.

I think in that call, it is the federal government's call to make.

(Crosstalk)

Chad Wolf:

Again, it's a benefit. Again, no one's entitled to a student visa. The United States, like any other country, provides you a benefit to come here.

And we expect certain — you to meet certain requirements of that student visa. And if you choose not to, then it should be the United States federal government's position to be able to remove you.

Nick Schifrin:

Chad Wolf, Richard Haass, thank you very much.