GOP Sen. Ron Johnson explains why he opposes Trump’s budget in its current form

Amna Nawaz:

Several key Republican lawmakers share the concern about the impact the budget bill will have on the national debt.

Geoff Bennett:

Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson is among them.

And I spoke with him earlier today.

Senator Johnson, welcome back to the "News Hour."

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI):

Thanks for having me on.

Geoff Bennett:

You have called this bill immoral. You have said it's grotesque, strong language. What specifically do you find so offensive about it?

Sen. Ron Johnson:

No, that's not how I refer to the bill. I have referred to the fact that we are mortgaging our children's future as immoral and grotesque, and then the level of debt that we have accumulated and that we continue to accumulate. So that is immoral.

What we are doing to our children, how we are robbing them of the opportunities and diminishing their prospects, that's truly immoral. And we need to recognize that fact and we need to stop it.

Geoff Bennett:

Well, the Congressional Budget Office, as you well know, now estimates this bill would add $2.4 trillion to the national debt over the next decade.

The White House says that number is misleading and they say that you have your facts wrong. Here's what the press secretary said earlier this week:

Question:

But Republicans like Ron Johnson and Rand Paul disagree. They are saying that it will add to the deficit. That is their concern. Is the White House's position that those two Republican senators are — quote — "blatantly wrong"?

Karoline Leavitt, White House Press Secretary:

It is. Those senators, it's not news that they disagree with this president on policy, and the president has vocally called them out for it and for not having their facts together.

Geoff Bennett:

So respond to that, if you will.

Sen. Ron Johnson:

Well, first of all, I met with the president at the White House yesterday with his economic advisers. They know I have my facts straight. We have got a lot of respect for each other.

Now, I thought it was kind of interesting, in that White House meeting, one of the things that President Trump pointed out was, the Democrats are always unified. They're always united. And I pointed out to them, well, that's because they're doing the easy things. They're spending money we don't have. They're mortgaging our children's future.

We're trying to do something hard. And I think the good news is that those of us who are trying to do something hard, we do respect each other. Listen, I'm a big supporter President Trump. I respect Speaker Johnson and leader Thune and Chairman Crapo.

But we are trying to do something very hard. We have had an unprecedented level of spending increase since the start of COVID from $4.4 trillion to $7 trillion. Our deficits under Biden and the Democrats averaged $1.9 trillion per year. It's very difficult to dial that back.

But, again, we're trying to do it. I recognize and I sympathize how difficult this is in the House, even in the Senate. I realize I'm kind of not one of the easiest gets here. But, again, my loyalty is to my children and grandchildren. And I believe that's — that is shared by the president and by the other leaders who are working on this enormously challenging problem.

Geoff Bennett:

So what needs to happen to get you to yes?

Sen. Ron Johnson:

So I have been pretty honest about this. I am up front.

We need a commitment, I need a commitment to a reasonable pre-pandemic level of spending — don't expect that to happen overnight — and a process to achieve and maintain it. So that gives people pretty light wide latitude to satisfy what I'm trying to do.

But the problem is severe. We're starting, according to the CBO projection — and that's what I'm focusing on. I'm not real fond of the CBO scores either. They're static. They're not dynamic. But their projection is pretty solid. I think you have to look at that. They're projecting $22 trillion of deficits over the next 10 years. That's an average of 2.2.

Starts about $1.9 trillion up to about $2.5 trillion. It's completely unacceptable. We need to bend that deficit curve down toward a trajectory where we can balance our budget. Again, that's a hard thing to do. But I just need a commitment to that pre-pandemic level. And I want a process and a commitment to work with me to achieve that over the next the few years.

Geoff Bennett:

President Trump and Speaker Johnson have set a July 4 deadline to pass this bill. It's only a few weeks away.

Is that timeline realistic? And what would potentially happen if you don't meet that deadline?

Sen. Ron Johnson:

Well, I think the skinnier we make this bill, the more realistic that timeline is. It's kind of hard to predict. I do believe that people like Senator Rick Scott and Mike Lee are working on different components with the chairmen of the committees.

I think the bill actually will become better in the Senate. I think we will find additional spending reductions, help us solve that problem a little bit better. And, again, I'm working with the White House economic advisers, who are just first-class and very knowledgeable group of people. We want to get our numbers straight, so that nobody's disputing what the projections are, what the scores are, so we're all on the same page from that standpoint.

And then we will move forward from that point.

Geoff Bennett:

Before we let you go, I want to ask you about a separate development, because President Trump today defended the executive order he signed last night imposing travel restrictions on more than a dozen countries, most of them in the Middle East and Africa.

Do you support that move? And do you think that policy is necessary right now?

Sen. Ron Johnson:

I certainly support keeping America safe. Unfortunately, in the last administration, President Biden and his allies in — Democratic allies here in the House and Senate threw open our borders, allowing millions of people completely unvetted, members of transnational criminal organizations, violent gangs, drug human sex traffickers, into this country.

President Trump has to clean up an enormous mess, and he's trying to prevent that mess from becoming even bigger. So, by and large, I support his actions. We have to secure our border. We have to protect Americans, make sure that Americans are kept safe.

Geoff Bennett:

Senator Ron Johnson, thanks for your time this evening.

Sen. Ron Johnson:

Have a great night.