Homan vows 'massive changes' and ICE drawdown if Minnesota officials cooperate

Amna Nawaz:

Welcome to the "News Hour."

The Trump administration's top immigration enforcement official says massive changes are coming to Minnesota, including plans to eventually pull out some of the thousands of federal agents currently deployed there.

Geoff Bennett:

And despite the administration's plan to ease some of the tensions, state and local officials and even the courts are demanding bigger changes.

After weeks of tension, protests and clashes in the Twin Cities and the shooting deaths of two U.S. citizens by federal immigration agents, Tom Homan, President Trump's border czar, today said he's working on a possible drawdown plan in Minnesota, and he acknowledged missteps.

Tom Homan, White House Border Czar:

Yes, I said it, draw down the number of people here. Nothing's ever perfect. Anything can be improved on. And what we have been working on is making this operation safer, more efficient, by the book.

Geoff Bennett:

But, Homan added, any reduction in the roughly 3,000 federal officers in Minnesota would only come with cooperation from state officials, which Homan acknowledged was occurring. And he said there would be zero tolerance for protesters who assault or interfere with officers.

Tom Homan:

We are not surrendering the president's mission on immigration enforcement. Let's make that clear. As we see that cooperation happen, then the redeployment will happen.

Geoff Bennett:

It comes as new video surfaced of Alex Pretti, one of the two U.S. citizens killed in Minneapolis by federal agents. In the video taken 11 days before Pretti was shot and killed, he's seen kicking the taillight off a federal vehicle before agents tackle him to the ground.

President Trump reposted the video on social media last night. But in a meeting with his Cabinet today...

Question:

Mr. President, why not take questions?

Geoff Bennett:

... the president refused to discuss Minnesota entirely, took no questions, and notably did not call on Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem to speak.

That's as some Republican lawmakers have called for ICE to refocus on its core mission.

Sen. Jon Husted (R-OH):

It's time to reset and focus on what the mission is, which was to target violent criminals, people who are on the worst-of-the-worst list.

Geoff Bennett:

Meantime, from one state drawdown to another. Republican Senator Susan Collins said today that enhanced immigration operations in her state of Maine have ended. That's after ICE today revealed its enforcement surge there culminated in more than 200 arrests.

In a statement, Collins said she urged Secretary Noem to get ICE to reconsider its approach to immigration enforcement in the state. The courts have also demanded reforms for ICE. The federal chief judge in Minnesota condemned immigration agents and officials there for violating nearly 100 court orders this month alone.

Another federal judge ordered the Trump administration to stop detaining and deporting Minnesota refugees who were lawfully admitted to the U.S.

Speaking to fellow mayors in Washington, D.C., today, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey held firm that the only reduction in federal agents that he will accept is a total reduction.

Jacob Frey (D), Mayor of Minneapolis, Minnesota: We've been very clear. The Operation Metro Surge needs to end. This kind of conduct and siege needs to stop, not just in Minneapolis. It needs to stop nationwide.

Geoff Bennett:

Back in the Twin Cities, a vigil for Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse mourned by colleagues, neighbors and fellow medical professionals.

Protesters:

Say his name!

Geoff Bennett:

Solemn calls for justice in a city still very much on edge.

For more on the legal and constitutional questions surrounding the unrest in Minnesota, we're joined now by Paul Butler, a former federal prosecutor who now teaches criminal law at Georgetown University's Law Center.

Thanks for being here.

Paul Butler, Professor, George University Law Center:

It's great to be with you.

Geoff Bennett:

We heard President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, say that federal officials could start drawing down operations in Minnesota so long as the state and local governments comply with the federal enforcement.

Are Minnesota officials actually legally obligated to comply with the federal government when it comes to immigration enforcement?

Paul Butler:

They're not legally required by the Constitution, but Minnesota state law requires the state prison to release inmates who are subject to deportation to ICE after they've served their sentence.

So, last year, about 84 inmates went from state prison in Minnesota to ICE custody.

Geoff Bennett:

When we hear Tom Homan talk about targeted enforcement, what does that actually mean?

Paul Butler:

It means, he says, going after people who are undocumented and threats to national security or public safety.

If Homan follows through, that could be a gang changer from what the administration's strategy now is, which is mass deportations. There's no way that you can deport or detain 3,000 people a day without bad optics. It inevitably involves racial profiling, brief detentions of people who are legally in this country to ascertain that they're citizens.

So targeted enforcement is not flashy, and there'll be a lot fewer people detain. The statistics suggest that people who are undocumented are actually less likely to commit violent crime than people who are here in this country legally. So you wouldn't have the big numbers, but, arguably, there'd be more of a benefit to public safety than just randomly rounding up people on the streets.

Geoff Bennett:

We've also seen protesters and legal observers say that they've been swept up in these enforcement actions. What legal protections do people observing these enforcement actions, do journalists, do bystanders have in these situations?

Paul Butler:

So, there's two parts of the Constitution that are relevant. People have a Fourth Amendment right to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures.

The ACLU has a lawsuit in which it says a number of protesters and observers have been illegally detained. They haven't committed any crime, but they've still been swept up in this enforcement effort. And there's also a First Amendment right that everybody has to protest. You can't impede law enforcement, but you can be annoying.

You can yell and curse at officers, you can blow whistles at them. You just can't obstruct them from carrying out their law enforcement responsibilities.

Geoff Bennett:

Federal agencies, including ICE and Border Patrol, there are reports that those agencies are using the same intrusive technologies, whether it's biometric technology, facial recognition technology, to not only track undocumented immigrants, but increasingly to track citizens opposed to the government's actions.

What legal questions does that raise?

Paul Butler:

So it raises questions about whether the government is using new technology in ways to circumvent the warrant requirement or the law that says that people can't be detained unless the government has reasonable suspicion.

So what ICE and Customs is doing is using, say, facial recognition techniques to identify protesters and possibly to identify people who are in the country without documents. Now, if they're in public, they don't have any right not to have their identity known.

But there are always concerns about, if it's protesters, people who are acting legally, of why the government is doing this. And there have been reports that ICE agents have identified protesters, and then in some instances driven their vehicles to their homes and just kind of announced their presence, not necessarily gone into the house.

Some protesters have understandably found that intimidating.

Geoff Bennett:

At the moment, are the courts the only backstop, the only guardrail to prevent the abuse of power or the unconstitutional actions by the federal government, especially in places like Minneapolis and in blue cities and blue states?

Paul Butler:

So there are concerns about accountability, about when federal agents cross the line if there will be consequences. There are also concerns about the ways that the federal officers are implementing immigration enforcement in Minneapolis.

They're often wearing masks. They don't identify themselves. And many of them don't use body cams. So Congress could pass a law requiring masks, requiring identification in most instances, and also requiring body cams. That would go a long way in terms of assuring people in Minnesota that the law enforcement officers are acting in a responsible way.

And if they're not, then they can be identified, so that there could be consequences either within ICE or in some instances, if they cross a line, criminal consequences.

Geoff Bennett:

Paul Butler, thanks, as always, for your insights.

Paul Butler:

Always a pleasure.