In China, a Struggle for Rights, but Hope for Future

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• JIM LEHRER:

  That follows, from President Obama's talk of human rights in China, a look at what rights the ordinary citizens of China actually do have.

  It comes from Xiao Qiang, a Chinese human rights activist who now edits China Digital Times, a bilingual Web site. He also is an adjunct professor at the University of California's Graduate School of Journalism in Berkeley. And Winston Lord, a longtime China expert who was the U.S. ambassador to China in the late 1980s, and was most recently there in May.

  Ambassador Lord, in general, how would you describe the rights that Chinese citizens have at this moment?

• WINSTON LORD:

  I would sum it up this way, Jim.

  First, China is much better than North Korea, and it's much worse than Iran. It's going backwards. And, in some areas, it's worse than when I was ambassador 20 years ago.

  And I can give specific examples.

• JIM LEHRER:

  OK. We will go through the specifics in a moment.

  Mr. Qiang, what would you — how would you summarize the situation now?

• XIAO QIANG, China Digital Times:

  Well, I generally agree that China has been moving further and further away from the totalitarian days of the Mao era. Chinese people are in general living in a much more prosperous and have increasingly personal freedom society.

  However, it still is an authoritarian regime, that fundamental human rights, particularly political and civil rights, are still routinely being violated, and system — systematically being abused, and the Chinese Communist Party, yes, still a monopoly of political power.

• JIM LEHRER:

  Sure.

  OK. Well, let's go through some of those. We will pick up on what each one of you have said, beginning with you, Mr. Ambassador.

  How would you describe the situation, just simple freedom of speech? What can a citizen say or not say under the — the — the laws of China at this moment?

• WINSTON LORD:

  Well, whether it's freedom of speech or freedom of the press, they're both severely circumscribed.

  You can talk about economic issues. You can even dance around the edges of corruption and issues like the environment. But any challenge to the Communist Party or sensitive topics like Tiananmen Square or Tibet or the Falun Gong, you are immediately circumscribed.

  And, certainly, what they're most concerned about, the authorities, is any organization of individuals cutting across a broader spectrum. That's why they severely censor the Internet and other forms of expression, as well as the media.