‘Iran’s nuclear program can never be destroyed,’ country’s top nuclear negotiator says

John Yang:

Good evening. I'm John Yang. Iran is bracing for global sanctions over its nuclear program to go back in place. The measures threaten to cripple Iran's economy. Their currency is at a record low and ordinary Iranians are struggling to get the food they need to survive.

The U.N. Security Council rejected a last ditch effort to delay the sanctions after negotiations with European nations failed to reach a deal.

Barring some sort of last minute diplomatic breakthrough, the renewed sanctions will freeze Iranian assets abroad, penalize any development of Iran's ballistic missile program, and ban the sale or transfer of conventional weapons.

Frontline correspondent Sebastian Walker conducted an exclusive interview earlier this week with Ali Larijani, head of Iran's Supreme National Security Council.

Seb, he previewed for you Iran's reaction to these sanctions going back in place. Let's listen to what he had to say.

Ali Larijani, Head of Iran's Supreme National Security Council: The issue of the snapback mechanism must be addressed first before this can be answered.

Sebastian Walker, PBS Frontline Correspondent:

It's conditional.

Ali Larijani:

Well when they stand against us like so, and try to enforce resolution against us using might, we see no reason to not pursue a different relationships with the IAEA.

John Yang:

Tell us more. Who is Ali Larijani and why is this so significant?

Sebastian Walker:

So he is the secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council. Now, this is the body that essentially has the say over foreign policy decisions, head of the security apparatus and also strategy over the nuclear program. So essentially he's the chief negotiator.

What he says is extremely significant. This is a very rare conversation. This is the first time that he has spoken to foreign media since his appointment. It's also the first interview that he's given since the 12-day conflict with the U.S. and Israel. And the timing of this, just in the lead up to everything that we've heard at the U.N. and this deadline for the sanctions to come back, made this a very interesting conversation to have.

John Yang:

You also asked him to react to the U.S. claims that attack by the United States and Israel obliterated their nuclear program.

Sebastian Walker:

President Trump has said that the enrichment facilities targeted were completely and totally obliterated. Is he right?

Ali Larijani:

You need to ask Trump himself, he announced that his forces were brave and powerful, that they bombed us and were successful. You shouldn't discount his words.

Sebastian Walker:

What's your assessment of the extent to which these sites have been damaged and how much this has set back Iran's nuclear program?

Ali Larijani:

I don't have any specific information to share. But in my opinion, Iran's nuclear program can never be destroyed. Because once you have discovered a technology, that can't take the discovery away. It's as if you are the investor of some machine, and the machine is stolen from you.

Well, you have the knowledge needed to make another one.

John Yang:

What was your takeaway from that answer?

Sebastian Walker:

Well, this is obviously at the heart of what's going on with this question over whether U.N. inspectors should be allowed back in or not. Iran wants to preserve as much mystery as they can about the extent of the damage. This is what everyone wants to know. Did these strikes succeed in degrading Iran's enrichment facilities? Were the U.S. strikes on Natanz, Fordow, Esfahan sufficient enough to set back the program?

We asked for access to these facilities. We were pushing as hard as we possibly could on the ground to get any filming done of any of the strikes where the U.S. missiles hit. That was — we were told that was impossible. And you heard from Mr. Larijani there that they don't think that the bombed sites should be open to U.N. inspectors. This is something that he said really is conditional on the sanctions not being reimposed.

He was saying essentially if these sanctions come back, then they will end their participation with the IAEA. And you're seeing signs of that already. Iran has recalled its ambassadors from Germany, France, the U.K. for consultations. He warned about the consequences of these actions and that Iran could withdraw from these negotiations as a result.

So, I mean, that was — we pushed him on, you know, a number of questions that I think international observers have about the impact of these attacks. We asked him, where is Iran's stockpile of highly enriched uranium, more than 400 kilos of HEU that Iran says is buried under rubble. International observers want to know where that is. And we asked him for information about that. None was forthcoming.

So, again, the takeaway overall is that Iran really is trying to kind of preserve whatever mystery it can about the extent of the damage. That's one of the few tools that they really have left after this devastating war that's taken place.

John Yang:

And you also asked him about the possibility of more U.S. attacks.

Sebastian Walker:

What's your message to the Trump administration if there are more attacks? What will be the consequences of that?

Ali Larijani:

I don't have a message for the Trump administration. I would only say that they should be mindful of their words and the insulting way they speak to Iranians. When he says Iran must surrender., it's clear he's not familiar with the Iranian people.

John Yang:

Do you get the sense that they're worried about more attacks either from the United States or from Israel?

Sebastian Walker:

I think there's definitely a worry about that. The attacks, I mean, were able to travel around the country to places that were targeted. We didn't see the U.S. strike sites, but were able to visit locations where Israel had eliminated some of Iran's leading nuclear scientists, places in Tehran that had been bombed apartment buildings.

There's a real apprehension on the part of Iranians that we met that more strikes could be coming down the road. There was, you know, alarm about how much had happened during this war. The 12-day conflict really showed Iran's weaknesses to a lot of ordinary people, that these scientists could be eliminated so effectively.

And I think spending time in the country while weren't able to really have a kind of truly authentic engagement with Iranians that we met. You're very highly monitored, controlled everywhere you go. It's very challenging as a reporter to report from Iran, but there is a sense that these strikes have really kind of had a huge impact.

The Iranian currency is at a record low. The news of the sanctions coming back, I think is incredibly worrying for a lot of ordinary Iranians. And it's just something that I think is we're really now at a point where anything could happen next. The sanctions coming back in puts Iran into a place where the engagement with the international community is now unclear. You heard from Mr. Larijani there saying that they are going to withdraw from participation with the IAEA. And I think that begs the question, what are going to be the consequences of that? What are the U.S. And Israel going to do next?

John Yang:

Frontline correspondent Sebastian Walker, thank you very much. Sebastian's exclusive interview will be part of an upcoming documentary for PBS's Frontline in collaboration with the Washington Post.