Iraq’s Foreign Minister Talks About Ongoing Violence in Iraq

MARGARET WARNER:

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari came to the U.N. Security Council this week with a mission: To win an extension of the United Nations mandate for the U.S.-led force in Iraq.

He got that on Tuesday. The Security Council acknowledged the "serious security challenges" the new Iraqi government faces, but it stressed that the coalition force of some 140,000 U.S. troops, plus 20,000 from other countries, should stay only until Iraqis can maintain security themselves.

It's far from clear how long that will take. Since Iraq's new government took power on April 28, there's actually been a spike in violence by the insurgency.

More than 700 Iraqis and 66 U.S. troops have been killed in suicide bombings, assassinations and other attacks since then. Yet, on Monday, Vice President Cheney said he thought the insurgency's days were numbered.

VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY:

I think the level of activity that we see today, from a military standpoint, I think will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.

MARGARET WARNER:

This week, Iraqi-led forces launched "Operation Lightning," a massive security cordon around and sweep inside Baghdad. Officials of the new government said 40,000 Iraqi troops were involved in this new effort to secure the capital city.

Foreign minister Zebari is now in Washington for meetings with Secretary Rice, Vice President Cheney and other top officials. I spoke with him this morning.

MARGARET WARNER:

Minister Zebari, welcome. Thank you for being with us. There have been more attacks in Iraq today. Why do you think there's been this upsurge in attacks since your new government took office?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

This upsurge was expected by us since the formation of the new government. The terrorists, the Saddamists, the anti-democratic elements, in fact, want to undermine this government, test this government.

This is the first elected government in 50 years of Iraq political history. So this is testing time for us. But we are determined to improve the security situation.

MARGARET WARNER:

But I was comparing, for instance, the number of Iraqis killed in the month just ended, May, versus a year ago, when the first time you came to the U.N. asking for a mandate for a U.S.-led force. And it's at least tripled the number killed. Do you think the insurgency is actually more effective now than it was a year ago?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I don't think so. In fact, if you look at the targeting, they're targeting ultimately Iraqi civilians or army police recruits.

No longer the attacks have been directed against the coalition forces or the American forces, and the aim of these groups is really to create mayhem and instability because they will never ever be able to get to power through the ballot boxes.

So their strategy is a simple one: To create as much instability as possible. They may have a chance to see this government fall, and reinstate the old order or some form of the old order, which is gone.

MARGARET WARNER:

Would you then agree or disagree with Vice President Cheney when he said on a television earlier this week — he said that the insurgency is in its "last throes." Do you think that's true?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I think they are desperate. Definitely we have some internal difficulties that we need to be inclusive, to reach out to all the communities. There is a great deal of work for this government. That's why this constitutional process is so important for us. But some foreign fighters are also coming from outside. Some of our neighbors are not helping us. They are providing the lifeline of this insurgency to continue. Syria has actually been, unfortunately, one of the main transit for many of these foreign fighters, by their own admission.

MARGARET WARNER:

Do you think that they are unable to stop the men and material coming in through the border, or do you think they're actually unwilling — that they actually would like to help destabilize your government further?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I believe they can help. They can do more. They can help the new government and they are capable of doing it but they are not doing it. Here we are not asking the Syrians to send their armies to seal off these wide open borders, but we believe they have very effective security agency that could help and stop the flow of these people.

MARGARET WARNER:

All right. So what does it tell you that they haven't done it?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Well, it tells us that the flow of these foreign fighters is still coming in. All, I would say, all of the suicide bombing that is taking place in Iraq are foreign fighters or jihadists who are recruited from outside.

MARGARET WARNER:

But do you think Syria is doing this on purpose?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I think they are miscalculating if they are doing it on purpose. This is not in the best interest of the Syrian national interest whatsoever. And it's in their interest to see a stable, peaceful Iraq, prosperous Iraq where they could do business with them. And I don't think their attitude, their approach is a correct one.

MARGARET WARNER:

Tuesday before the Security Council, you were, of course, very frank that the Iraqi security forces aren't ready to do this for themselves.

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Yes.

MARGARET WARNER:

It's been two years that we have been hearing from the Pentagon and the administration that they've been training Iraqi troops. Why at this stage aren't there more Iraqi troops ready to take this on themselves?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Well, they are taking more responsibilities. Their performance has improved but still not up to the level that we want to see them.

In fact, this process needs to be accelerated, has to be looked at by the Pentagon, by other friends who are helping us, by NATO, to accelerate this process and to think more creatively and more revolutionary, really not through standardized procedures that takes longer to build up the Iraqi military and security capabilities.

MARGARET WARNER:

So, are you saying though that you think that there are some flaws in the training, things that could actually be better on the U.S. side?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I think in terms of equipping the army and in terms of providing material, weapons, more assistance directly, it could be done, I think. And it's not a question of numbers. It's not a question of charts. It's the quality of these forces, their commitment, their leadership and their intelligence.

MARGARET WARNER:

Let's talk about the political process. You have said how important it is to meet this deadline of Aug. 15 to get this new constitution. Why is it so important to meet that deadline and how realistic is it?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

We have reached a critical point, a critical mass for writing a constitution with the consent of all the Iraqis. This is for our future. And every Iraqi should participate in this.

And it is very important that the United States government and other countries who are participating in the stabilizing effort should be focused and engaged to see this process move smoothly. We are committed to those deadlines. We are working under very tight time schedule to meet, to write a constitution in two and a half months. Just imagine —

MARGARET WARNER:

I'm not sure it has ever been done.

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

We are going to do our best, really.

MARGARET WARNER:

What happens if you can't make the deadline, the Aug. 15 deadline for writing a constitution?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Well, the process would be prolonged, and I believe there is always the danger that the parties or the representative of the different communities could walk away, and then it would be a really unhelpful situation and fraught with grave dangers.

MARGARET WARNER:

So are you saying you want the United States to be more engaged in that process and, if so, how?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Well, it is engaged; it's been helping actually, but there are many ways the United States can assist or help the U.N., especially now.

I was in New York and we have these discussions with the P5, and with the secretary-general, to provide assistance for the constitutional process in terms of expertise, of guidance, of advice. And we need this to be accelerated.

MARGARET WARNER:

My impression was, though, that after the elections, the Bush administration wanted to step back a bit and let the Iraqis run it. Are you saying that was a mistaken approach to take?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

I believe so. I personally believe that, because the stakes are high for all of us, and we need this process to move forward according to the timetable to succeed.

So it's true that it is our responsibility, our main mission, let's say, to complete this process. But we need assistance. Now, we are going to ask for the world for that assistance.

We are going to Brussels to have this international conference for that. So we are moving in the right direction but I think it's very important during this period that the United States and other countries who care about the future of Iraq should be more engaged.

MARGARET WARNER:

But you aren't ready to give a deadline?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

It's very difficult. I think the sooner the better. These countries who are concerned about the presence of the U.S. troops and foreign troops in Iraq, my message to them has been: Help us to accelerate that.

Help you to build our ability, capabilities so we will be in control and there will be no need for these forces to stay any longer.

MARGARET WARNER:

Mr. Minister, thank you.

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:

Thank you.