Kurdish general on peace deal with Syria and hopes for the future

Amna Nawaz:

Today, the Syrian government confirmed it had closed one of the largest camps that used to house ISIS fighters and their families. It's the latest example of major transformations in Syria, from how it confronts ISIS to whether the U.S. will remain.

A key player in all this is General Mazloum Abdi, head of the Syrian Kurds.

Nick Schifrin recently sat down with him to discuss the future of the Kurds and the fate of the country as a whole.

Nick Schifrin:

In Syria, what the U.S. called a historic milestone. Kurds mark the moment they hope will give them reason to celebrate, autonomy and equality at last.

For the last decade, Kurdish fighters have waged war alongside the U.S. to liberate Syria from the Islamic State, and in the northeast they call it semiautonomous region. But, recently, Syrian government forces hoping to unify the country overran the Kurds and seized some of their territory, leading to a deal between Syrian president Ahmed al-Sharaa and the leader of the Syrian Kurds, General Mazloum Abdi.

Earlier this month at the Munich Security Conference, Mazloum rubbed shoulders with the Americans, who want to see him and the Syrian government make a sustainable peace.

How historic was the late January agreement for the Kurds and for all of Syria?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

This late January agreement was the best possible outcome under the current circumstances. We are not saying that it was the best deal for the Kurds. However, to secure a cease-fire, to establish stability and address our problems through dialogue made acceptance possible.

Nick Schifrin:

That acquiescence reflects the Kurds' military and economic setbacks. In January, the Kurds were forced to withdraw from huge parts of Northern Syria, including oil and gas fields that once provided revenue. They're now supposed to hand over border checkpoints to the Syrian central government, which is trying to consolidate national control.

Kurdish forces will integrate four brigades into the Syrian military. In return, Syrian forces withdrew from some, but not all, of Kurdish territory, and Kurdish regions have been guaranteed civil and educational rights.

If you are granted empowered local governance, the right to control police, local schools, is that enough? Or will Syrian Kurds be seeking autonomy or even independence?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

No, in these specific circumstances, this is what we want. That is the existence of a local administration, where Kurds can govern their regions and preserve Kurdish identity.

Nick Schifrin:

Are you saying that empowered local governance is enough and you don't need autonomy or even independence?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

We want autonomy. However, due to the current circumstances, that the condition for the Damascus government to accept us is just local administration.

Nick Schifrin:

If the deal collapses, would you consider launching an insurgency against the government?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

I don't want or wish for something like this to happen, but if the deal collapses, we will persist in our fight until the very end. It is absolutely impossible for us to give up on the Kurdish regions.

Nick Schifrin:

For years, the U.S. and Kurdish forces have tried to prevent ISIS' resurgence and stop ongoing threats. But now the U.S.' main partner against ISIS is the Syrian central government's military and police.

Mazloum urges the government to integrate and learn from Kurdish fighters.

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

ISIS is still very strong and has also gradually gained access to major Syrian cities. ISIS can carry out attacks whenever it wants. I believe that if the fight against ISIS has not continued vigorously, the organization will once again continue to pose threats to the world.

Nick Schifrin:

Even if experts call that an exaggeration, the threat includes ISIS fighters in prison camps that have held tens of thousands of militants and their families. Earlier this month, the U.S. transferred 5,700 ISIS prisoners to Iraq, what a U.S. official told "PBS News Hour" were the most dangerous prisoners.

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

Undoubtedly, this transfer will have benefits in weakening ISIS' influence. The transferred prisoners no longer pose a risk of participating in ISIS attacks.

Nick Schifrin:

But the largest camp, al-Hol, is now empty, and U.S. and regional officials tell "PBS News Hour," after the Kurds transferred control to the Syrian government, at least 10,000 ISIS women and children left and have not been tracked.

The future of ISIS will determine the future U.S. presence. The U.S. has recently closed two of its bases and announced a consolidation of troops. U.S. military officials tell "PBS News Hour" any further movement will be based on conditions. Outside experts say they believe the U.S. will eventually fully withdraw.

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

Withdrawing American troops at this critical moment is not a good idea, as it will inevitably present inherent challenges, especially in the ongoing fight against terrorism.

Nick Schifrin:

But the fact is, the U.S. has already withdrawn its support for the Kurds.

Donald Trump, President of the United States: The Kurds were paid tremendous amounts of money, were given oil and other things, so they were doing it for themselves more so than they were doing it for us.

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

And when the Syrian government attacked Kurdish positions, the U.S. did not come to the Kurds' protection.

Nick Schifrin:

So do you feel abandoned by the United States?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

A major attack was launched against our regions. Many of our people were killed, and the U.S. stance was not strong enough to stop the attack. So, due to this stance, there is also a widespread disappointment among our people.

Nick Schifrin:

At this point today, what does it mean to you to be a citizen of Syria?

Gen. Mazloum Abdi (through interpreter):

I have two identities. One is being Syrian and the other is being Kurdish. I am essentially Kurdish. I am proud of both. We want to envision Syria to be rebuilt, but we also want to see the Kurdish regions develop and prosper and for Kurds to have their own major roles within the country.

Nick Schifrin:

Those roles are still in flux, as is the fate of the country as a whole. But all sides say they want this transition to succeed to help create stability out of a still-fragile state.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.