‘Mutually assured destruction’: GOP Rep. Lawler calls for redistricting battles to end

Geoff Bennett:

Indiana could soon become the next major battleground over redistricting, as Vice President J.D. Vance met with the state's governor and legislative leaders to discuss ways to strengthen the GOP's House majority ahead of the 2026 midterms.

The move follows efforts by Texas Republicans to redraw congressional maps in their favor, a strategy that sparked threats of retaliation from Democratic leaders in blue states like New York and California. And, in response, a handful of GOP lawmakers from those states are now calling for a redistricting cease-fire.

Congressman Mike Lawler of New York is one of those Republicans. And he joins us now.

Thanks for being with us.

Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY):

Thanks for having me.

Geoff Bennett:

So you have largely backed President Trump's agenda, but you have criticized this Texas redistricting plan, which he supports. What about it, do you believe, crosses the line?

Rep. Mike Lawler:

Well, this is an issue that has been going on for decades, obviously, the gerrymandering of our congressional maps in red states and blue states.

And when you look at the fact that last November only 35 seats were decided by five points or less, that tells you everything you need to know about the fact that most seats are not competitive. They are solely won or lost based on the primary. And so, from my vantage point, coming from a district that has 80,000 more Democrats than Republicans, I obviously am very focused on a general election.

And I think the reality is our country would be better served and Congress would be better served if more seats were competitive. So this effort that we have seen — and, by the way, it didn't just start with Texas. New York did mid-decade redistricting last year. They went to court and forced a new map and took the opportunity to redraw the lines and pick up three seats in the process.

So this idea somehow that this just started with Texas is a joke, especially when you look at the fact that we just had a Supreme Court race in Wisconsin that was basically run on the idea that there would be redistricting in Wisconsin. So this is mutually assured destruction. We're seeing Democrats and Republicans seek to gain advantage through the redistricting process.

And, from my perspective, it's wrong. And that's why I'm introducing legislation to ban gerrymandering nationwide. This is not how the process should be fought out. We should have competitive districts based on communities of interest, and ultimately the voters, not the politicians, should decide who is in the majority.

Geoff Bennett:

And there is the question of, should Congress set national redistricting standards, or does that infringe too much upon states' rights? How do you draw that line? Where do you draw that line?

Rep. Mike Lawler:

Unfortunately, what we have seen in states like Illinois, where they redistricted Republicans down to three seats, it is not a fair process. And you look at a state like Massachusetts, 9-0 in favor of the Democrats.

That is not how this process should be won or lost in terms of control of Congress. It shouldn't be boiled down to how the map is drawn. It should be won or lost based on the issues, based on the choices presented to the voters. So I fundamentally believe, unfortunately, the states have used the redistricting process as a bludgeon.

And both sides are guilty of this. There is no question about that. So, from my vantage point, banning gerrymandering nationwide is something that we should undertake.

Geoff Bennett:

How much of your opposition is driven by political self-interest, given that your seat could be at risk if Governor Kathy Hochul moves forward with her threat to retaliate and redraw the map?

Rep. Mike Lawler:

I'm not concerned about my individual race. I have won three times in 2-1 Democratic districts precisely because I know how to present the case to my constituents.

There's 80,000 more Democrats in my district than Republicans. If you can't beat me based on the current map, that speaks volumes to your message. But I have been wholly consistent in this fight for years. When I ran for the New York State Assembly back in 2020, I was very outspoken against gerrymandering and what the Democrats were trying to do at the time to weaken the Independent Redistricting Commission in New York.

I was executive director of the state Republican Party back in 2013 when we passed through the state legislature a constitutional amendment that then went to the voters and was ratified to create the Independent Redistricting Commission and ban gerrymandering. So I have been wholly consistent in this.

I voted against New York's maps in 2022 as a member of the state Assembly long before I decided to run for Congress because those maps were wrong. They violated the state constitution, and the Court of Appeals upheld that. So this has been my position for a very long time. And I fundamentally believe it's the right one.

Geoff Bennett:

New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, thanks again for being with us. We appreciate it.

Rep. Mike Lawler:

Thank you.