NATO chief discusses future of western support for Ukraine

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• Geoff Bennett:

  Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine will soon enter its third year. Now U.S. support for Ukraine is in question because of Republican resistance on Capitol Hill.

  NATO's secretary-general is here in Washington this week, and he spoke with our Nick Schifrin from the Pentagon a short time ago.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, welcome back to the "NewsHour." Thanks very much.

  I want to start on the front line in Ukraine. Here's what Celeste Wallander, one of the top U.S. defense officials who work on Ukraine, told journalists last week.

  Celeste Wallander, U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense: We have heard reports from the Ukrainian government that they have concerns that units are not — do not have the stocks and the stores of ammunition that they require.

• Nick Schifrin:

  From your perspective today, how short is Ukraine of the weapons it already needs?

• Jens Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary-General:

  They need more weapons, and, in particular, they need more ammunition and spare parts and sustainment.

  And that's exactly why it is important that the United States, but also all other allies, commit to long-term support to Ukraine and ensure that there is a steady flow of ammunition, spare parts, weapons to Ukraine.

• Nick Schifrin:

  There are long-term American contracts that will be going to Ukraine for the next couple years, but the task at hand in Washington is that Congress is blocking the $60 billion that the administration wants to send Ukraine weapons today.

  At this point, what do you believe NATO members are able and willing to do, given that the U.S. right now cannot send further weapons short-term to Ukraine?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  I believe that all allies, also the United States, will continue to provide support to Ukraine.

  The U.S. has demonstrated leadership, provided unprecedented support to Ukraine, but the reality is that actually European allies have also really stepped up. And if you take them altogether, European allies and Canada, the total support from European allies and Canada is actually bigger than the support from the United States.

  And then I see that there is actually broad support for continued support, also the United States, in the Congress, for support to Ukraine. The challenge is, of course, that this is linked to another important issue, the situation on the border. It's not for me to go into that discussion, but I just hope that there is a way to find an agreement on Ukraine, where we actually see broad political support.

• Nick Schifrin:

  But as we started this interview acknowledging Ukraine needs weapons today, it doesn't even have enough today for what it needs, and U.S. officials are beginning to acknowledge that 2024 is likely to be a year in which Ukraine just needs to hold the line, and that it's actually 2025, when American weapons come online, when more European weapons come online, and, in fact, Ukrainian weapons as well come online, that, in the spring of 2025, Ukraine could be able to launch another offensive.

  Is that how you see it?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  I will not go into the operational issues.

  I think it's important that it's for Ukraine to comment on those issues. Then I think it's extremely important also to remember where we started when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, February '22.

  At that time, most experts feared that Ukraine will come under Russian control within weeks and Kyiv will be taken by Russia within days. What we have seen is actually that Ukraine has been able to liberate 50 percent of the land that Russia controlled in the beginning of the full-fledged war.

  They have been able to push back the Russian fleet from the western part of the Black Sea. So, they have opened a corridor for export of grain and other commodities. That's extremely impressive. And by deep strikes, not least with the cruise missiles from the United Kingdom and France, they are able to continue to inflict heavy losses on the Russian armed forces.

  So, they have achieved a lot, and they have demonstrated that the support we provide to them is making a huge difference on the battlefield every day.

• Nick Schifrin:

  But, today, Ukraine has still not found a solution for the defenses that Russia has set up, especially in Southern Ukraine, right?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  Wars are unpredictable and wars are difficult. And no one can say exactly how this war will develop the next year.

  But what we do know is that the Ukrainians have the courage, the determination to defend their own land. And we also do know that, when they get the support from us, they are actually able to inflict heavy losses and gain also territory in the fight with invading Russian forces.

  We need to stand by Ukraine both in good times, but also in bad times. We can not only be kind good weather supporters. And, therefore, I count on all allies to continue to support Ukraine, not least because it's in our security interest to ensure that President Putin doesn't win in Ukraine.

  If he wins, it will embolden him, but also other authoritarian leaders, including in China, to violate international law, use force, and we must prevent that from happening by supporting Ukraine.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Let's talk about political support for Ukraine. Last summer in Vilnius, NATO members dropped the requirement for Ukraine to complete a Membership Action Plan before it joins NATO.

  Will there be more concrete measures taken at the summit in Washington in July for NATO's 75th anniversary that will actually send the message to both Kyiv and Moscow that this war will end with Ukraine inside NATO?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  I cannot preempt the exact conclusions from the Washington summit, but, first of all, that will be an important summit, where we are going to mark the 75th anniversary of the most successful alliance in history.

  And I expect that allies will agree further steps to move Ukraine even closer to NATO. Ukraine will become a member of this alliance. That has been clearly stated by all allies.

  And we have moved them closer by turning a two-step process into one-step process before they can become a member, which actually shortened the path to membership, by establishing something called the Nato-Ukraine Council, where we are deepening the political cooperation, and by helping them to ensure that the Ukrainian armed forces are fully interoperable with NATO forces.

  All of this is moving Ukraine closer to NATO, demonstrating that Putin made a big mistake. He wanted to control Ukraine, prevent Ukraine from moving towards E.U. and NATO membership. He's getting exactly the opposite. Ukraine is closer both to E.U. and NATO than ever before.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Sir, let me ask you about a little American politics, if I may.

  Donald Trump , of course, has won the first two Republican contests in the United States. We went back to the archive and found this moment from a breakfast you held with the former president in 2018.

  Donald Trump , Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: Germany, as far as I'm concerned, is captive to Russia because it's getting so much of its energy from Russia. So we're supposed to protect Germany, but they're getting their energy from Russia.

  Explain that. And it can't be explained. You know that.

• Nick Schifrin:

  My first question is, does that kind of moment bring back thoughts of your relationship with the former president?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  Well, I'm the secretary-general of NATO, responsible for working with 31 allies. And, of course, allies elect different political — select different political leaders.

  The strength of these allies is that, despite differences, despite different political parties in power in different countries on both sides of the Atlantic, we have always been able to unite around our core task to protect and defend each other. And I expect that to continue to be the case, because it is a great advantage for the United States to have NATO.

  NATO is important for European security, but NATO is also important for the United States. Together, we represent 50 percent of the world's GDP and 50 percent of the world's military might. And that makes also the United States stronger.

• Nick Schifrin:

  The U.S.' European allies, some governments are making contingency plans if Donald Trump were to become president again and withdraw from NATO.

  Is NATO making those contingency plans?

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  I'm confident that the United States will remain a committed NATO allies — ally, because it is in the interest of the United States, not least when they see the size of the military buildup in China and the size of the Chinese economy.

  I also see broad bipartisan support for NATO in the United States. And then, when you listen to what former President Trump has stated many times, his primary criticism is not about NATO. It's about NATO allies not spending enough on NATO, not investing enough in — on defense.

  And, there, we have a good story to tell. Over the last years, all allies have increased defense spending. More and more allies meet the guideline of spending 2 percent of GDP. And, in total, they have added 450 billion U.S. dollars.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Yes.

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  So, different U.S. administrations have called for more defense spending. They were right, and now this is happening.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Jens Stoltenberg, secretary-general of NATO, thank you very much.

• Jens Stoltenberg:

  Thank you.