Off the Books: Rumsfeld and International Law

RAY SUAREZ:

The so-called "off the books" prisoner of war story. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld took questions at the Pentagon today about a high level terrorist captured in Iraq, one whose identity was kept secret from the International Red Cross in a possible violation of international law.

DONALD RUMSFELD:

I was requested by the director of central intelligence to take custody of an Iraqi national who was believed to be a high-ranking member of Ansar Al-Islam, and we did so. We were asked to not immediately register the individual, and we did that. It would… it was… he was brought to the attention of the department, the senior level of the department I think late last month, and we're in the process of registering him with the ICRC at the present time.

REPORTER:

Well, why did you not register the individual, and has this man simply been lost in the system for… why didn't you tell the Red Cross that you had him?

DONALD RUMSFELD:

The decision was made that it would be appropriate not to for a period, and he wasn't lost in the system. They've known where he was, and that he was there in Iraq for this period of time. So I think it's broadly understood that people do not have be registered in 15 minutes when they come in. What the appropriate period of time is I don't know. It may very well be a lot less than seven months, but it may be a month or more. There's no implication of any problem. He was not at Abu Ghraib, he is not there now, he has never been there to my knowledge. There's no question at all about whether or not he's received humane treatment.

RAY SUAREZ:

For more on the hiding of Iraqi POW's from the Red Cross we turn to Edward Pound, assistant managing editor for investigations at "U.S. News and World Report." Edward Pound, did the secretary of defense shed any light, advance the story for you today?

EDWARD POUND:

Not really. I mean, he was very nimble in the way he handled the Peace Corps at the Pentagon briefing. He said a couple things that I thought were of some interest. He said that the CIA, the director of the CIA, George Tenet, former director, had send him a letter some time back in October or November asking him to take custody of this detainee, this Iraqi terrorist, and, of course, that's what the Pentagon did. Rumsfeld issued a directive requiring the Pentagon to take the man into custody and put him into the detention facility at Camp Cropper.

RAY SUAREZ:

Now, there's a lot of talk back and forth between the secretary and reporters today over registering him. Let's talk about what that is. What is done with the normal prisoner that wasn't done with this man?

EDWARD POUND:

Well, what is normally done with these detainees in Iraq and in any other facility where we have these detention facilities around the world and what other countries are supposed to do is when a prisoner comes in, he is registered and put into an electronic database and give an serial number. That information is provided to the Red Cross. The Red Cross then is allowed to come to this facility and interview this prisoner and check on the conditions. If this name is not in the database, which is what happened here with this fella who was code named XXX, the Red Cross has no idea that he's there.

In fact, the Red Cross inspectors came to the detention facility at Camp Cropper sometime after this prisoner was detained and put into the system, and not put into the system but put under guard into this facility, and they were not told that the– the Red Cross, I mean, was not told that this prisoner was there. They had no reason to know he was there because he was not in the database, so he was therefore not in the roster of prisoners that were presented to the Red Cross.

RAY SUAREZ:

We heard the secretary say, well, there's no law saying that someone has upon registered in 15 minutes. In fact, how long was this person held by the United States in a way that could not be checked by international authorities?

EDWARD POUND:

Well, he's still there. He still has not been registered. Now, what happened here is this prisoner, XXX, had been taken into custody by the Kurdish military last year, turned over to the CIA. The CIA took him to an undisclosed location, according to military intelligence officials and then interrogated him for many, many months. Then they decided in October that he needed to be back in Iraq. He's an Iraqi national. He was then placed into, as I say, there was an order issued by General Sanchez at the behest of Mr. Rumsfeld placing this man into custody.

RAY SUAREZ:

Does it appear to you from your reporting that the United States government is using the same theory that they used to cover the detainees in Guantanamo Bay, that of enemy combatant status for this man, XXX?

EDWARD POUND:

I asked that question, and the answer I got was they weren't certain. This is what I asked a Pentagon official today. So I don't know the answer to that. I do think that they've decided that they could have held this guy basically as long as they wanted to without informing the Red Cross, and that's what they did.

Now, what is interesting to me is we reported in our story this week a side bar story on a Capt. Wiedenbush, who was a captain in the 800 military police brigade, which was responsible for the detention facilities. She sent a letter to the Hill, to Senator John Warner in the Senate Armed Services Committee, complaining about the report that had been issued by General Tagubu, which, as you know, touched off this whole inquiry of abuses. In her letter, she makes reference to the order that Sanchez issued in November.

It does not disclose any details because it's a classified order, but what's interesting about this is Secretary Rumsfeld said today in late May, they realized at the senior levels of the department that nothing had been done with this, with XXX, this detainee, for seven months. Her letter went to John Warner and other people in late May. She specifically cites this order, this Sanchez order. I'm wondering, and we don't know the answer to this, whether that was touched off by her correspondence.

RAY SUAREZ:

Do we have any way of knowing how many other detainees have been unregistered, have gone hidden from the International Red Cross?

EDWARD POUND:

We don't know, but we do know there were ghost detainees at Abu Ghraib. I saw reported several weeks ago based on an affidavit I obtained. Interestingly enough, Secretary Rumsfeld was quite nimble today when asked that question. He said they had been requested by the agency, the CIA, to hold certain prisoners, but when he was asked if they were registered, put into the electronic database, he said he didn't know the answer.

RAY SUAREZ:

Very quickly, has the International Red Cross itself had any response to this story?

EDWARD POUND:

Not as yet. I talked to them last week when I spoke to them, and they said they could not comment on the situation.

RAY SUAREZ:

Edward Pound of U.S. News and World Report, thanks for being with us.

EDWARD POUND:

Thank you.