Part I: Secretary of State Colin Powell

JIM LEHRER:

Mr. Secretary, welcome.

SECRETARY POWELL:

Thank you, Jim.

JIM LEHRER:

Are you going to Damascus to talk to President Assad of Syria?

SECRETARY POWELL:

I have made no plans yet, but I expect that as I travel a little bit later on in the spring there will be an opportunity, I hope, to visit Damascus and have conversations with President Assad, yes.

JIM LEHRER:

But there's no specific plan to go in the immediate future?

SECRETARY POWELL:

No, no.

JIM LEHRER:

But what happened? There were stories out the last 24 hours that, my goodness, you were going to go. What happened?

SECRETARY POWELL:

Well, I was asked about it and I said that I would expect in the future, in the near future, to have an opportunity to speak to my Syrian colleague and to President Assad, and suddenly that became I'm leaving tomorrow morning. But that was not what was said, and it's not the case.

JIM LEHRER:

So you don't see it as an urgent matter to talk to him?

SECRETARY POWELL:

No, I've been to Syria twice, and I am in regular contact with the Syrian Foreign Minister, and so I think that as we move into the spring, and now that Iraq is — the military part of it is over, and as we get ready to release the roadmap that will get us jump started in the Middle East peace process, there will be an opportunity for me to travel to the region in the not too distant future. And I would expect, as part of those travels, I would ask to see President Assad, and I look forward to it.

JIM LEHRER:

The recent remarks from the President, from you and Secretary Rumsfeld, were they, in fact, designed to create this storm that has come up the last few days?

SECRETARY POWELL:

They were designed to point out some rather straightforward truths and facts: one, that Syria has sponsored terrorism over the years; it is considered one of the states that do sponsor terrorism; it's on our list of such states. And that's always been a concern to us, especially the support they provide to Hezbollah. We have also stated clearly over the years that we believe Syria is developing weapons of mass destruction, and we are concerned about, especially, their chemical weapons program.

I think what highlighted it at this particular point in time, however, is the changed situation in the region. We have been successful in Iraq. There is a new dynamic in that part of the world. And we wanted to point out strongly to the Syrians that this is a time for you to take another look at your policies.

And then the additional element that perhaps gave it such visibility is we had evidence that there were still material going across the Syrian-Iraqi border into Iraq, and we were concerned that Fedayeen were coming from Damascus to participate in the conflict against coalition soldiers, and we did catch people heading back into Iraq carrying — back into Syria from Iraq, carrying large sums of money who had gone to engage in this conflict.

And we also have some concerns that senior leaders of the former Iraqi regime, Saddam Hussein's family members and close associates and others, might be trying to find a safe haven in Syria.

So all of that sort of came together and suggested that we should make it rather clear to the Syrian government that this would not be satisfactory behavior in light of these changed circumstances, and we hope they'll respond.

JIM LEHRER:

Well, as you know, this has been read in the Arab world, and also in some places in Europe and elsewhere, the United States as saying, "Hey, Syria, look next door at what happened to Iraq. If you don't get your act together, the same thing could happen to you."

Is that a correct message? Is that the message the U.S. wanted to send?

SECRETARY POWELL:

It's not a message the United States has delivered. The President hasn't spoken in those terms. Neither have I, and, for that matter, neither has Don Rumsfeld or Condi Rice.

But, clearly, what's really happened in Iraq is that a regime that did sponsor terrorism, that did terrorize its own people, that was developing weapons of mass destruction, was in violation of standards that had been imposed by the United Nations is no longer there.

So there is a changed situation and Syria is about to have a neighbor that's going to be democratic, it's going to have a representative form of government, it's going to use the wealth of its people — the intellectual wealth of its people, the human capital of that country and the oil of that country — to benefit the people. And so, hopefully, this is a new dynamic that Syria will take note of.

JIM LEHRER:

But, as you go through your list just now, the checklist that led to military action against Iraq, Syria almost meets the same checks, does it not?

SECRETARY POWELL:

Not entirely, because there were 12 years' worth of U.N. resolutions that had been imposed upon Iraq, so I think it's different. Iraq had recently invaded its neighbors, had used weapons of mass destruction against its own people and its neighbors, and as recently just as a few months ago, in total violation of U.N. Resolution 1441, once again told the international community that we're not paying any attention to you. And therefore, serious consequences flowed and those serious consequences got rid of the regime of Saddam Hussein.

But as I have said previously, and the President has certainly indicated in his own remarks, there is no war plan on anyone's desk right now to go marching on Syria.

JIM LEHRER:

But it may not be on the desk, but it's not off the table, is it?

SECRETARY POWELL:

The President has a full range of options and a toolbox full of tools to deal with various foreign policy challenges and issues, and you just don't reach for one tool every time. You look at each situation — whether it's North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Iraq — and you use the tools that are appropriate.

Right now, we think we have clearly pointed out to the Syrians aspects of their policies and behaviors that we think they should reconsider in light of changing circumstances in the region.

JIM LEHRER:

White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, on Monday, referred to Syria as being a "rogue nation." Is that how you see Syria, too?

SECRETARY POWELL:

We have always described Syria as a nation that has been a state sponsor of terrorism and that is developing weapons of mass destruction. It has a form of government that we believe is not, perhaps, best for the people of Syria.

I haven't used the term "rogue nation" but it certainly has those sorts of aspects. And it is no secret that we have felt this way towards Syria, but it is also no secret that we have an Ambassador in Syria, we have diplomatic relations with Syria. I meet regularly with the Syrian Foreign Minister and I have visited President Bashar al-Assad twice since I've been Secretary of State.

So there are ways to deal with a country such as Syria and the leadership of Syria that don't involved reaching into a toolbox and pulling out an invasion plan.

JIM LEHRER:

What do you say to those in the Arab world who say, "Wait a minute. Here Israel has weapons of mass destruction. U.S. policy clearly is that the United States trusts Israel with weapons of mass destruction, but does not trust any Arab nation with the same." Is that a correct reading of U.S. policy?

SECRETARY POWELL:

We believe that weapons of mass destruction — let me put it this way. We believe that there should be no weapons of mass destruction in that part of the world, and that has been a U.S. policy and goal for many, many years and remains so.

JIM LEHRER:

But Israel, does, in fact, have them.

SECRETARY POWELL:

We believe that that part of the world would be better off if there were no weapons of mass destruction, and we hope that through our efforts to move the peace process further along, and the president is ready to fully engage in moving the peace process along once the Palestinians have confirmed their new Prime Minister. And if we get to that place that we all want to get to, where there will be a comprehensive peace between Israel and the Palestinians, and a comprehensive peace that includes Lebanon and Syria, then maybe the motivation for having such weapons will be gone.

JIM LEHRER:

Do you have any sympathy at all for those in the Arab world who say the United States has a double standard?

SECRETARY POWELL:

I think the United States has demonstrated, and will demonstrate even more forcefully in the months ahead, that our standard is one; we want all the people of the region to live in peace with one another — Israelis and Arabs, Palestinians and Israelis — and that is what the president has committed to in his June 24th speech which laid down a clear vision, two states living side by side in peace. And if we can achieve that vision over the next several years, as the president hopes to, then a lot of this concern about what America believes and what America supports and who America supports, does not support, will be dealt with.

The president has as much concern about the welfare of every Arab, and especially every Palestinian, as he does about the welfare of every Israeli. They are all human beings. And we are trying to find a way to help them arrange a political settlement between them so that we can create a Palestinian state that can live side by side in peace with Israel.

And when that situation has been created and you add to it a change in Iraq, which we now have caused to come about, and if the other nations in the region would realize that supporting terrorism and starting on weapons of mass destruction will not improve the situation, then, hopefully, we can arrive at the vision that the president laid out and the Arabs themselves laid out in the Arab League statement last year and which followed upon Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia's vision.

JIM LEHRER:

So we might get to a point where the United States would turn to Israel and say, "Get rid of your weapons of mass destruction"? That could happen?

SECRETARY POWELL:

We would, hopefully, get to a point where we're executing on the roadmap that we will be releasing pretty soon. And that roadmap deals with a comprehensive settlement between Israel and the Palestinians, which we hope will then lead to a comprehensive settlement of issues outstanding with Lebanon and Syria. But the roadmap does not deal with weaponry and the peace plan does not deal with weaponry.

JIM LEHRER:

Syria said officially that they do not have weapons of mass destruction. They completely flat deny the U.S. charge that they are making or possess or are testing chemical weapons. Do we have proof otherwise?

SECRETARY POWELL:

The intelligence that's available to me from the very sophisticated intelligence agencies that we have make it clear to me and to us that they do have programs of that nature.

JIM LEHRER:

They also deny that they are harboring Iraqi leaders. Do we have proof otherwise?

SECRETARY POWELL:

We have provided them some information concerning specific named individuals that we would hope they will look into.

We also want to make sure that they seal their border. They say they have closed their borders to this kind of movement and we hope that they keep that border sealed; and if any of these individuals who are associates, affiliates of the former Hussein regime turn up, the Syrians will do the correct thing, the right thing, in our judgment, and return them back to Iraq so they can stand before justice administered by the Iraqi people.

JIM LEHRER:

A non-diplomat would look at this and say, wait a minute, somebody's not telling the same — somebody's not telling the truth, just to be straight here. I mean, is it that kind of confrontation? Is it a confrontation over facts or is it a confrontation over interpretation, or what are we talking about here?

SECRETARY POWELL:

We're talking about just what you said, Jim: a disagreement. And I have discussed this, these areas of disagreement — terrorism, weapons of mass destruction — with my foreign minister counterpart, Foreign Minister Shara and with President Bashar Assad previously, and we'll continue to do so.

And they will have to make judgments as to how much value they think these kinds of activities and programs have for them in a geographic part of the world that is rapidly changing, with the end of the Hussein regime and, hopefully, progress on the Middle East peace plan.