Rubio bolsters Hungary's far-right leader days after push to mend U.S. ties in Europe

Amna Nawaz:

America's top diplomat traveled to Hungary today and endorsed that country's far right prime minister, who's seeking his fifth straight term in office this April. Viktor Orban has cracked down on the media, civil society and weakened judicial independence in Hungary.

At a news conference in Budapest, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the extraordinarily close relationship between President Trump and Orban had tangible benefits.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio: President Trump is deeply committed to your success, because your success is our success.

Amna Nawaz:

Orban has close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin. And while Europe has ended or significantly reduced its reliance on Russian oil, Hungary refuses to cut back on the oil it buys from Russia. President Trump has exempted Hungary from U.S. sanctions for those purchases.

Rubio's meeting with Orban came after the secretary of state addressed world leaders at the Munich Security Conference this weekend. Coming on the heels of Trump's threats to Greenland, Rubio tried to convey a reassuring message.

Marco Rubio:

We care deeply about your future and ours. And if at times we disagree, our disagreements come from our profound sense of concern about a Europe with which we are connected, not just economically, not just militarily. We are connected spiritually and we are connected culturally.

The fundamental question we must answer at the outset is, what exactly are we defending? Because armies do not fight for abstractions. Armies fight for a people. Armies fight for a nation. Armies fight for a way of life. And that is what we are defending, a great civilization.

Acting together in this way, we will not just help recover a sane foreign policy. It will restore to us a clear sense of ourselves. It will restore a place in the world. And in so doing, it will rebuke and deter the forces of civilizational erasure that today menace both America and Europe alike.

Amna Nawaz:

After the secretary's speech, Nick Schifrin, who was in Munich, spoke to two senior European officials to get their reactions, beginning with the minister of defense for Belgium, Theo Francken.

Nick Schifrin:

Defense Minister, thank you very much. Welcome to the "News Hour."

Theo Francken, Belgian Defense Minister:

Thank you.

Nick Schifrin:

You have described this year already as a storm. You have referenced Venezuela. You have referenced, of course, the crisis over Greenland. Secretary Rubio came here to Munich, gave a speech that was described by the chairman of the conference as reassurance to European allies.

Where do you think transatlantic relations are right now?

Theo Francken:

I wrote a book about the history of NATO, and I said we have a marriage of 76 years old and we're in a crisis.

Since one year, we're in a marriage crisis. And then you can -- I'm married for 20 years. And sometimes you have a fight, and we had some fights the last couple of months. Certainly, on Greenland, we had a big fight. And I think that you can choose two ways or you do a divorce or you try to fix your marriage.

And I think that in the main interest of the United States, of American people is -- and in European states and European people is to stay together, to stick together, because the threats, the storm is coming, is already there, and the threats are increasing.

Nick Schifrin:

Some European officials I talk to say that Greenland was basically a turning point or almost a turning point, but that the lesson learned was that Europe united to push back on the United States and that's why President Trump basically took an off-ramp on Greenland.

Is that how you sit?

Theo Francken:

I'm really an Atlanticist thinker. I'm somebody who really loves America, American civilization, American people. And I always defend you in my Parliament, in my public opinion.

But Greenland was the total red line. You cannot offend somebody by taking or by threatening the territorial integrity of a country. That is just a red line. You cannot do it. I mean, it's an ally, such a good and decent ally like Denmark. You just can't do it.

So, yes, the pushback was really, really well-coordinated. And I hope, I don't know, but I see that the reaction now is like appeasing and saying, OK.

Nick Schifrin:

From the U.S., you're saying, the U.S.?

Theo Francken:

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Nick Schifrin:

So, does that mean that the lesson that Europe has taken is actually that pushback works?

Theo Francken:

Pushback worked in this specific situation with Greenland. And I think the message has really been clear. And the reaction is also clear.

So, Mr. Rubio now really opening up and saying, OK, let's -- we have our problems, but we have our problems also in the United States, we have our problems in Europe, but we -- let's try to fix them together.

And I think that, for me, it is really a relief and I think also for a lot of Europeans and a lot of American people that are saying, OK.

Nick Schifrin:

And, later, I spoke to Kaja Kallas, Europe's top diplomat, about Secretary of State Marco Rubio's speech here in Munich and the overall relationship between the U.S. and Europe.

Kaja Kallas, thanks very much. Welcome back to the "News Hour."

Secretary of State Marco Rubio in his address to the Munich Security Conference said this of the United States and Europe -- quote -- "Our destiny will always be intertwined with yours, and we want to do it together with you, our oldest allies and our cherished friends."

But his agenda that he laid out, including stopping immigration that has caused what he called European civilizational erasure, and eliminating -- quote -- "the global welfare state and the climate cult," the chairman of the Munich Security Conference said he was reassured. Are you?

Kaja Kallas, Foreign Affairs High Representative, European Commission:

The tone was different. That's for sure. And...

Nick Schifrin:

Than Vice President Vance last year.

Kaja Kallas:

Yes.

And, also, I mean, there were some positive messages, exactly. I mean, we want to do this together with you. We have always been together and we will be also together in the future. So that is the message that we heard.

We don't always see eye to eye on issues. And we still think that if you're worried about migration, you should be also worried about the climate change, because people will have to leave their homes because they can't live there.

So these are the debates that we definitely don't always agree. But I think, in the bigger picture, the security issues, the message to us that we want to work with you, I think it's important.

Nick Schifrin:

It does seem, though, that some European concerns that already existed of the Trump administration certainly crescendoed after the Greenland crisis.

And I noticed that French President Emmanuel Macron used a phrase at the Munich Security Conference. He said -- quote -- "We will de-risk vis-a-vis all the big powers in order to be much more independent."

He did not say de-risk from China, right? That's the phrase he used, clearly implying the United States.

Is Europe de-risking from the United States? And what does that look like?

Kaja Kallas:

I mean, we are strengthening our defense. We are really trying to get over our dependencies, because dependencies make us vulnerable and weak.

We are diversifying our trade relationships. We are also diversifying our defense and security partnerships, so that we are not putting all the eggs in the same basket, because every tendency...

Nick Schifrin:

The American basket.

Kaja Kallas:

Whatever basket, meaning that we have been dependent on Russian energy. We learned the hard way that it's going to be very costly. Now we are also worried about dependencies on technologies that come from China.

And, of course, in terms of security, we have been dependent also on the United States. And we are doing more to be more independent when it comes to security.

Nick Schifrin:

One of the examples of perhaps Europeans thinking about de-risking the United States is a conversation about nuclear deterrence.

We heard from the chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, saying openly that he was talking to France about perhaps extending their nuclear deterrence to Europe. I've talked to other foreign ministers who are certainly talking about that.

Is that a sign that Europe does not have faith in the U.S. nuclear deterrent?

Kaja Kallas:

These discussions are out there. I don't think it's good for the overall peace of the world, because these are very dangerous weapons, but...

Nick Schifrin:

Not a good idea to even have discussions or you're saying not a good idea to extend nuclear weapons?

Kaja Kallas:

No, no, no, I think -- yes, I think the discussions are there. It's always good to have discussions, what are the options really?

But we are in this point where we are entering into a very dangerous world, where we might see more nuclear weapons. But at the same time, I can understand where these countries are coming from. Exactly. The risks are higher.

Nick Schifrin:

Let me ask about Alexei Navalny, the former Russian opposition figure who died in Russian detention. Five European countries have come out and said that he was poisoned -- quote -- "with a lethal toxin found in poisoned dart frogs in South America."

What does that say about Vladimir Putin's Russia?

Kaja Kallas:

Well, it says what we have always known. It is literally dictator's handbook.

How you remain in power is that you eliminate all the potential competitors. You keep the oligarchs and the power structures happy, and you are staying in power. So that's very clear that he's operating like this. He's killing his own people to stay in power.

Nick Schifrin:

And finally, on Ukraine, European intelligence officials here briefed reporters and said that Vladimir Putin is not negotiating in good faith.

U.S. officials, as you know, believe they are making progress. Who's right?

Kaja Kallas:

We see a strong push for peace, but it's one-sided. We have heard what Ukraine is willing to also concede, but Russians are just playing time and pretending to negotiate, so that's not really serious.

They want to have absolute maximalist goals delivered by the Americans diplomatically what they haven't been able to conquer militarily. I don't know where this belief comes that actually there's progress made.

Nick Schifrin:

Kaja Kallas, thank you very much.

Kaja Kallas:

Thank you.