Sharing Sculpture

JIM LEHRER:

Finally tonight, a conversation about the Nasher Sculpture Center, a one-of-a- kind place that had its official public opening today in Dallas. The center is the collecting climax for Texas businessman Raymond Nasher and his late wife, patsy. Together they assembled the world's most extensive private collection of modern sculpture, involving more than 300 pieces of art. The Nashers wanted their art to be seen, so they installed many pieces in the places they built– shopping centers, banks, and offices.

Now much of the art has a permanent home in the new Nasher Sculpture Center in downtown Dallas. Ray Nasher hired award-winning Italian architect Renzo Piano to design it, and spent $70 million to build it. The sculpture center is a museum and a sculpture garden, which was designed by landscape architect Peter Walker. There are also educational and research facilities, and a state-of-the-art conservation lab.

On exhibit, to start, are 25 large-scale works outside, and 70 more in the inside galleries. The displays move seamlessly from indoors to outdoors on a two-and-a-half acre site. The museum's roof is specially designed to allow natural sunlight to flood the interior, while keeping harmful rays from disturbing the art. Some of Nasher's collection remains in his house, in Dallas. And I talked to Ray Nasher there in July, about his collecting life with sculpture.

When did you and patsy start collecting sculpture?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, we started collecting in the '50s. In other words, we were married in '50 and then we moved from Boston here in '51, and we really started taking our vacations in Mexico. And we became very interested in pre-Colombian art, which was sculpture. And in that stage of the game, we had very few financial resources, so that it was easy for us to pay $20, $30, $40 for a wonderful piece of pre- Colombian art. So our collection really started with pre-Colombian art.

JIM LEHRER:

Do you remember a particular piece of art, whether it's sculpture or not, where you and Patsy realized, "my goodness, we have moved into another league with the decision to acquire a particular thing"?

RAYMOND NASHER:

I think in 1961 Patsy gave me a Jean Arp, an incredible piece that's in this room, and it was really one of his most beautiful pieces. And it was the beginning of our collecting sculpture and also getting into the next league of sculpture, because Arp was truly one of the fine sculptors of the century.

JIM LEHRER:

What did you lay out as the Nasher desire?

RAYMOND NASHER:

We said we wanted to meet Henry Moore, and we always wanted to get to see his works. And we met Henry, and he was working on two pieces at the time, the "Vertebrae" and the "Reclining Figure No. 9." Patsy liked the "Reclining Figure No. 9." She thought that was an incredible piece. I thought that the "Vertebrae" was a new, revolutionary part of Moore's work, and I preferred that. And for some good reason, and one that I thought made sense, we bought both of them. That's right. So Henry said no one had ever bought A… two of his works, of the large-scale works, at the same time.

JIM LEHRER:

Do you look back on it and think, though, that the Henry Moore, buying the two Henry Moores, was a major, major step toward the ultimate collection?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, I think… well, it was a major step in spending the amount of money.

JIM LEHRER:

Right. It was a little more than 30 bucks?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Yeah, that's right. They were each $50,000, et cetera. They're a lot more today. But in other words, that was a $100,000 splash, which we had never done previously.

JIM LEHRER:

How do you feel about collectors' obligation to display his or her art to the public, in other words make it to share it?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, that's the one thing that we've always thought was the most important area; that it wasn't a question of just having it for ourselves or being selfish about pieces; having wonderful pieces that we could enjoy.

JIM LEHRER:

Let's go through some of the great sculptors whose work is represented in the collection.

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, I think the beginning of modern sculpture started with Rodin. And we had the good fortune maybe three, four years ago, of finding the plaster of Rodin's "Age of Bronze" that he did in 1875. And then basically Picasso, you know, comes into play, and we have the beginning of cubism, started with Picasso's "Head of Fernande." And we have the original plaster, which is the beginning… first cubist sculpture that was created.

JIM LEHRER:

What would you say to somebody about Calder, who just doesn't get Calder, I mean, that it looks like these things that are just kind of, you know, twirling around in the air? Why is that art?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Balance. In other words, the word "balance" is so important in everything that relates to art; light in balance. And Calder was able to create pieces and works of art and elements that really had the ability to rotate and work in a most unusual vein, so that he was really doing engineering work and bringing engineering into sculpture.

JIM LEHRER:

You chose to make Giacometti a big part of your collection, did you not?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Yes, that's right. And we think he's truly one of the great artists not only of this century, but of all times.

JIM LEHRER:

The story of the sculpture center, when does the story begin? When was it that you began to think that you wanted to do something with the collection as a whole?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, I thought that Patsy and I had talked about it many times during her lifetime, you know, what's the future of all of this going to be — because we're spending a fortune buying all of these things and we're enjoying them tremendously and getting all these butterflies. But what happens, you know, later on? The original aspect was it would be… totally be a garden with a very small particular area for tools and other things, to have the ability to change pieces, et cetera, and with the idea that it would all be outdoor sculpture. As I thought about it and really thought about the whole programming I thought the indoor pieces were equally as important as the outdoor pieces.

JIM LEHRER:

Then you had to decide on an architect.

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, I really interviewed a number of architects, the great architects in the world who basically had been interested, who had done some art work, per se, and you can find there's maybe eight or ten or a dozen who've really done superb work. And then I determined that Renzo Piano… I thought that Piano knew more about art and the meaning of art and the creation of works of a building and garden for art than anyone else.

JIM LEHRER:

And how would you explain what he came up with? How would you explain the ceiling?

RAYMOND NASHER:

Well, it's never been done before, that's one. It's totally unique. So his first approach was that the ceiling was going to be totally glass. And then above that he created this egg crate form. And as the light changes, it's collected in a similar way. So the end result was that he created something that is totally a new form of natural light, and that then comes down on the glass, and then the glass diffuses it to the walls.

JIM LEHRER:

That's never been done before?

RAYMOND NASHER:

No. So we're hoping.

JIM LEHRER:

You can go to this place and get something out of it no matter who you are, no matter what kind of knowledge you bring to it about modern sculpture or anything else?

RAYMOND NASHER:

That's right. It's everyone… it really is what… my hope is that it really brings sculpture to the fore, and is something that makes people (a) interested in it, and the ability to educate them, too, is important; to share that experience with them.

JIM LEHRER:

Sure. But even if they come and have a few moments of peace and meditation, you'll buy that, too?

RAYMOND NASHER:

I think it's fabulous. I think I'd go down there to meditate in that garden. It would be fabulous.

JIM LEHRER:

For the record, and in the interests of full disclosure, Ray Nasher and I, and our families, have been personal friends for over 30 years. I serve on the board of the Nasher Sculpture Center, as well as the Nasher Foundation.