Shields and Brooks on ‘New Candor’ with Pakistan, Biden’s Poll Numbers

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• JIM LEHRER:

  And finally tonight, the analysis of Shields and Brooks, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, "New York Times" columnist David Brooks.

  The three of us, along with everybody else, just watched the interview with Hillary Clinton, secretary of state.

  What did you see when you saw her?

• MARK SHIELDS:

  I saw a directness, a refreshing directness, I felt, sort of a new candor in the relationship, I would say, between the United States and Pakistan, openly and publicly, on both sides.

  I mean, earlier in the day today, she got in a frank exchange in some rather direct ways.

• JIM LEHRER:

  Each one of these things, there has been a…

• MARK SHIELDS:

  Yes.

• JIM LEHRER:

  Whether the students, everybody she has talked to, they have been at her.

• MARK SHIELDS:

  But the other thing that hit me was, I mean, that there's a real sense of courage involved. I mean, she walked into that country, kept her public schedule after a terrorist attack that killed 100 people, two-thirds of them women and children.

  And I was sort of encouraged by her and by her directness.

• JIM LEHRER:

  Encouraged?

• DAVID BROOKS:

  Yes, on two things especially, and then one question I have.

  One, encouraged on, Waziristan, the Pakistanis have actually started fighting the Taliban quite hard on that. And she actually suggested she is not satisfied with that. She wants more. And, so, that has been progress. And more progress needs to be done.

  The second issue which she is trying to do is get us talking about things other than terrorism, and economics. And, you know, you look over at China…

• JIM LEHRER:

  The poverty — she raised the poverty issue.

• DAVID BROOKS:

  Right. And I think that is significant, because, when China expanded, the countries around China tasted some of that expansion. And it changed the whole region, even countries who were hostile to China.

  Now, India next door is exploding in growth. And, so, will it spill over into Pakistan? Well, it has the potential, even given the current relationship between those two countries, but you would certainly think it has the potential.

  Now, the psychological question I have is, we send our secretary of state over there. She gets really beat up by a lot of different audiences. Do people feel — in those countries feel purged? OK, she listened. Good. We had this exchange. Or do they think, well, hating the U.S. really feels pretty good, and I should do more of it?

  And I'm not quite clear sure which is right. It would be interesting to know if she goes — if she goes through some of these episodes.

• JIM LEHRER:

  How would you answer that?

• MARK SHIELDS:

  Well, she certainly wasn't a Whac-A-Mole. I mean, she is not — she doesn't — there's not a glass jaw about taking a punch. I mean, she comes right back.

  And I thought, on the point that David was making about the economy, I mean, $85 million in micro-loans to women, I mean, that is such a departure. I mean, our relationship has been — so much with Pakistan, it has been just a military relationship, primarily. And that's — and the obviously continues.

  And I thought her directness on, as far as the strings attached to aid and the criticism of that — now, I think the criticism of the United States' bombing by Pakistani women students, I think, put her a little bit more on the defensive.

• JIM LEHRER:

  What did you think of her — the way she explained Afghanistan, the U.S. policy and the decision-making process that the president is going through?

• DAVID BROOKS:

  Well, it is — first of all, there is a tension between the direction the administration is moving in, and the direction of Afghan-Pakistani cooperation.

  As Margaret sort of suggested in some of her questions, if you pull back from the remote areas, well, that is where you are pulling back from.

• JIM LEHRER:

  That's right. Yes.

• DAVID BROOKS:

  You are pulling back to those cities. So, that genuinely is a problem that they're going to have to work out.

  I was on the border there several months ago now. And there was an alleged cooperation station between the Afghans and the Pakistanis. It was completely bogus. There were a couple soldiers from each side, and they mostly spent their days playing volleyball.

  And, so, it was a step forward, but I wouldn't say there's close cooperation between those two countries.

• MARK SHIELDS:

  And, just finally, I would say about her that, I mean, her directness on al-Qaida and the Pakistanis, I thought was…