Son of detained Hong Kong journalist Jimmy Lai on Beijing’s crackdown on speech

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Any day now, a Hong Kong court is set to deliver a verdict for Jimmy Lai. He's the 77 year old democracy activist and media magnate who's been detained now for five years. He's accused of sedition and collusion with foreign forces, but his supporters call the trial a sham and say the only thing Lai is guilty of committing is journalism.

  Nick Schifrin recently sat down with Lai's son.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Jimmy Lai has been detained by Hong Kong authorities in solitary confinement for 1,700 straight days. He's become a symbol of the death of personal freedoms in Hong Kong.

  Jimmy Lai arrived in Hong Kong at the age of 12, stowed away on a fishing boat. He worked his way up to become a media tycoon and a leading pro-democracy advocate. In the summer of 2020, he became the most prominent person arrested under a national security law that punished people not only for what they did, but also what they said.

  Anyone who — quote — "provoked the hatred of Beijing," who called for Hong Kong separation from mainland China, who received support from a foreign country, as judged by Beijing-backed courts, could be sentenced to life in prison.

  And now, after a two-year trial and five years of detention, Jimmy Lai's health is deteriorating, posing a grave risk to his physical and mental health and to his life.

  To discuss this, I'm joined by Sebastien Lai, Jimmy Lai's son.

  Sebastien Lai, thanks very much. Welcome back…

  Sebastien Lai, Son of Jimmy Lai: Thanks for having for me.

• Nick Schifrin:

  … to the "News Hour."

  As best as you can tell, how's your father doing?

• Sebastien Lai:

  Not very well, unfortunately.

  As you outlined these conditions that he's in, it's absolutely horrible. And this is a man who's 77, turning 78 at the end of this year. He recently was too sick to go to court because he had heart palpitations and they had to hook him up to a heart monitor. We're very worried that something happens to him and it just doesn't get with — fast enough and then he passes away.

• Nick Schifrin:

  You and I sat here in these exact same seats a year ago.

• Sebastien Lai:

  Yes.

• Nick Schifrin:

  And you told me that you were worried your father might die in detention a year ago.

• Sebastien Lai:

  Yes. Yes.

• Nick Schifrin:

  What's changed, if anything, or are you just more worried than you were back then?

• Sebastien Lai:

  So, his trial is still ongoing. There were times when he could express his principles in court. And it was those little beautiful moments of this man who is — through his courage, through his belief in freedom, stayed and defended these principles.

  And you can still see that mentally and spiritually he's still very strong. But, physically, it's really distressing.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Devout Catholic, fierce promoter of democracy, those are the principles that your father has lived in all his life.

  And, this month, you have submitted a new request to the U.N. to try and raise your father's case with Hong Kind authorities, with Beijing. What are you hoping the U.N. does? And what do you think they might accomplish?

• Sebastien Lai:

  So the U.N. could put pressure on both Hong Kong and the Chinese government to treat my father better. But, look, the — actually, the wider picture there is, he shouldn't be in jail in the first place.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Your father's being tried for sedition and conspiracy to collude with foreign agents. Do you believe there is any chance that this court will find him not guilty?

• Sebastien Lai:

  There's no chance of him ever getting a fair trial. The evidence is incredibly thin.

  And my father has come out incredibly clean throughout all this, and to the sense where he has really been shown to be this moral figure, this person who always stood for what is right, who campaigned for democracy peacefully, who advocated for Hong Kong to be democratic under the joint declaration, and did not call for Hong Kong's independence, who did all of this because he believed it was the right thing financially and personally for it, and in the end decided to stay in Hong Kong even after the passing of the national security law to defend his journalists and to defend his principles.

  And many people around the world do not think that a man who's done all of that, who's done — who is so courageous deserves to die in prison.

• Nick Schifrin:

  One difference between today and the last time you and I talked a year ago is that, of course, President Trump is in office. And last month, President Trump talked to FOX News and he said this:

  Donald Trump, President of the United States: I've already brought it up. And I'm going to do everything I can to save him. I'm going to do everything. You know, he's a respected guy. He's a good guy. I mean you could also understand President Xi would not be exactly thrilled by doing it.

• Nick Schifrin:

  What do you hope that President Trump can do to try and save your father?

• Sebastien Lai:

  I mean, we're so incredibly grateful that the president said that. And I thank him from the bottom of my heart.

  This is the man who has freed so many people from all over the world. The hope is that he frees my father. But, at this point in time, it's saving his life. And so I really hope he saves my father's life.

• Nick Schifrin:

  As you know, I interviewed your father in August 2020, and this was my last question to him.

  You are, as we talked about earlier, accused of colluding with a foreign power. Are you resigned on a personal level to being found guilty and spending a long time, even perhaps the rest of your life, in prison?

• Jimmy Lai, Founder, Next Digital:

  I don't think about this because I don't want to put the psychological burden on myself until the time comes. I'm not worried, just because if my life is about myself, it would be meaningless.

  Only when I detach from myself and thinking of my life is about something bigger, and not about myself, that my life becomes meaningful. And that makes me going every day.

• Nick Schifrin:

  When life is not about myself, but about something bigger, that's when my life becomes meaningful.

  What's your response to watching that?

• Sebastien Lai:

  It's — yes, it's obviously very emotional, because anybody that knows him, it's a man who had — he could have left at any point. But I think, at his age, he realized that he has so much more to defend, so much more to lose, but so much more to defend, so much more to protect.

  And he knew that despite, obviously, the danger to his life, that he had something that mattered more. And so he stayed and defended his principles and defended his colleagues. And I'm so proud to call this man my father and so proud to be able to fight for him, to fight for his freedom.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Sebastien Lai, thank you very much.

• Sebastien Lai:

  Thank you. And thank you so much for having me.