Tamara Keith and Amy Walter on Trump’s Epstein files reversal

Amna Nawaz:

It's gearing up to be a busy week on Capitol Hill after President Trump's U-turn on the Epstein files.

To discuss that and more, we turn now to our Politics Monday duo. That is Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR, who joins us tonight from Salt Lake City.

It's good to see you both.

Amy Walter, The Cook Political Report:

Hello.

(Crosstalk)

Amna Nawaz:

So, Tam, I'm going to start with you because, as you heard Lisa report earlier, the House is expected now to vote on the release of those Epstein files tomorrow. You saw what the president posted online when he had his reversal, at least rhetorically, on the release of those files.

He said: "House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide. It's time to move on from this Democratic hoax. I don't care. All I do care about is that Republicans get back on point."

So, Tam, what should we know about why that reversal?

Tamara Keith, National Public Radio:

Well, initially, he was sort of holding his hand up, trying to tell a moving freight train to slow down and stop. Eventually, he realized that this was going to pass and it was going to get a lot of Republican votes. And it would show a fissure between himself and members of his party in Congress, something he really doesn't want.

So he got out of the way. And now instead of this being a vote that shows weakness, he can spin it as a vote that shows that the House is just going along with what he wants. But, clearly, for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, he made it quite clear he didn't want this vote to happen. Now he's even saying that he'd sign a bill if it gets to him.

Of course, it has to go through the Senate. And his public posture may be different than his private posture there.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, we saw him try to pressure some Republicans to not support this release.

Amy Walter:

That's right. That's right.

Amna Nawaz:

What does this say to you about his influence over lawmakers?

Amy Walter:

Yes, it's been really interesting these last couple of weeks, right?

We have seen some Republican pushback in ways we haven't seen for the entirety of his second term. We're watching in Indiana and in Kansas state legislators there actively push back on pressure from the White House to redistrict those states, including trips from the vice president and the president calling in and asking for those members to be primaried.

We're seeing the president himself go in and rescind some of the tariffs that he had put on some food goods, coffee being one of them. Obviously, tariffs a big issue for voters, voters across the board saying that tariffs have impacted them negatively on the economy. So he's not admitting that these tariffs were a bad idea, but taking them off to certainly suggest that he's feeling that heat.

And now, on this issue where, as Tam says, it was pretty clear that — where the trip was going and so he got onto the right train.

Amna Nawaz:

To get ahead of it, so it could line up with where his House Republican members were.

Amy Walter:

Yes.

Amna Nawaz:

I want to talk about affordability in a moment, but, Tam, I do need to ask you about what Lisa was reporting about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene in particular, because it's so fascinating to see this relationship.

She went from staunch supporter to now publicly disagreeing with him on this, being called a traitor by President Trump. How do you look at that rift? And also I should just note for our viewers' awareness, we'd invited the congresswoman on the show. She'd accepted our invitation and then her team ended up canceling. I should note the invitation stands. She's welcome any time.

But how do you look at that, Tam?

Tamara Keith:

Yes, I think this rift is much bigger than just the Epstein files.

She is someone who is — who says that she still supports the president very much, but that she is channeling the voice of his voters and of his base. She is definitely coming from a populist perspective.

And so it's not just about the Epstein files, though that is certainly something that she crossed him on. But she's also criticized him meeting with so many foreign leaders. As we know, he has another meeting with a Saudi leader tomorrow. He met with a Syrian leader last week, which was quite something.

And she's saying, hey, you need to focus on the U.S., focus on domestic politics, focus on America first, which is what you ran on. And to get to the affordability point, she was on "The Sean Spicer Show" last week and said something pretty remarkable. The president's message is that costs are down and that affordability is something that is just being weaponized against him by the Democrats.

And she came out and said, basically, Mr. President, don't gaslight your voters. They are going to the grocery store. They are buying clothes for their kids. They're paying energy bills. They know that things are more expensive.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, she has disagreed with the president on cost of living, on foreign policy, on the health care subsidies. Does she represent something new in the MAGA movement?

Amy Walter:

I don't know.

I mean, she also has created a lot of rifts with other members of the Republican Conference. She was kicked out of the House Conservative Caucus, the Freedom Caucus. She has a beef with many other members within the Republican Party. She is somebody that has liked to and has attracted a lot of the spotlight.

But I do think it says something about the fact that the real pushback, the first real pushback we're seeing from members of Congress — and, let's be clear, had Trump not said he supported, this bill was still likely to pass — that the first real pushback is not on tariffs. It's not on the fact that there have been the military targeting drug boats in the Caribbean.

It's not on redistricting at the congressional level. It is the Epstein files.

Amna Nawaz:

Right.

Amy Walter:

And I do think it speaks to and what Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be speaking to is this bigger, broader populist message, which is the idea that unites the Republican base, or at least the MAGA base, is that there is a system that rewards certain people in the establishment, covers stuff up for them, and that we want to be the people that expose that.

And that is quite telling about the thing that really breaks the MAGA from Trump.

Amna Nawaz:

Meanwhile, Tam, on that affordability issue, we have seen a shift from the White House, from the president, at least an attempt to shift the narrative a little bit and to change some of their language.

We've seen the president try to take some steps on lowering prescription drug costs, on rolling back some tariffs, as Amy noted, on key items. What do you know about what's driving that shift and how they're explaining it?

Tamara Keith:

Yes, those tariff rollbacks are pretty stunning, given how much of President Trump's second-term policy agenda has been built around tariffs and about denying that they make things more expensive for American consumers. But now they're saying, well, mission accomplished, and we can make coffee cheaper again.

I spoke with a White House official, a senior White House official, who said that they realized that the president focused a bit too much on foreign policy and that he does need to get out there with an affordability message and that he needs to say that there's more work to do.

And, in fact, just moments ago, he was — I think he probably is still speaking. He was speaking at this McDonald's convention. And he said a lot of these lines that I heard from the senior administration officials, saying, I will not rest until we make America affordable again, more or less, and also saying that there's more work to do.

That's new, because previously the president had mostly just been spiking the football and saying everything was great and we're in a golden age because he's president.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, do voters care if he contradicts himself or do they only care that he brings prices down?

(Crosstalk)

Amy Walter:

They want him to bring prices down.

I mean, this is where the Biden administration found themselves during that '21 and '22 era, which was everything's fine. I don't see why people are complaining about inflation. It's really not bad. What you see with your own eyes isn't true. The economy is getting better. Look at what we're doing.

So I think what voters are prioritizing, what does it mean for me? I'm not really interested in the way that you would like to unveil your own agenda or you have a theory of the case. How is it impacting me? The other thing that the president is trying to do and is not really working is to blame Biden for where we are.

Overwhelmingly, voters see that this is indeed Trump's economy. So the fact that, look, the year out from the next election, the fact that he is addressing this issue is an important factor, especially if you're a Republican up in 2026. You want to see the president doing this a lot more.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy Walter, great to have you here. Tamara Keith, safe travels to you. Good to have you both. Thanks so much.

Amy Walter:

Thank you.

Tamara Keith:

Thank you.