‘The Russian legal system is a sham’: Alsu Kurmasheva’s family blasts her conviction

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Russian courts have convicted a string of journalists in recent days.

  Today, exiled Russian journalist Mikhail Zygar was sentenced to eight-and-a-half years in absentia for spreading fake information about Russia's war in Ukraine. On Friday, Evan Gershkovich, an American Wall Street Journal reporter, was convicted of espionage in a rushed secret trial.

  That same day, Alsu Kurmasheva, a dual Russian-American citizen and journalist with the U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, was convicted and sentenced to six-and-a-half years in prison for spreading — quote — "falsehoods" about the Russian army. Like the others, her trial was shrouded in secrecy.

  I spoke yesterday with Kurmasheva's husband, Pavel, and the elder of her two daughters, Bibi, and began by asking them about the moment they learned of her conviction.

  Pavel Butorin, Husband of Alsu Kurmasheva: Well, first of all, it was unusual to find out from a news report.

  Alsu's case is shrouded in secrecy. We knew very little about this trial. I know the sentence is terrible. However, unfortunately, it was not unexpected. In Russia, conviction rates are almost 100 percent. If you're charged, you are convicted, especially in a political case like this.

  But, more importantly, we know, Alsu's family, we know that Alsu has done nothing wrong. She doesn't belong in a Russian prison cell. She belongs home with her family.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Bibi, I know, in many ways, as your father's explaining, you kind of expect it in this sort of system, but, at the same time, just what did you think when you heard the news?

  Bibi Butorin, Daughter of Alsu Kurmasheva: Like my dad said, it wasn't shocking, because we expect her to get convicted, but it definitely was hurtful, because it's so disheartening to see our mom, who is the sweetest, most wonderful person in the world, being treated this way and people thinking that she could be a criminal.

• Pavel Butorin:

  When we talk about these convictions, I think it's important to make a distinction, because Americans held prisoner in Russia are not subjected to the same norms as we in the free world are accustomed to.

  There's no due process. There's no presumption of innocence.

• Amna Nawaz:

  There's also the fact, Pavel, that, unlike other Americans, and there are other Americans held there right now, in Evan Gershkovich, Wall Street Journal, and Paul Whelan, Alsu has dual citizenship.

  Do you think that the Russians are treating her differently because of that?

• Pavel Butorin:

  Well, it's for that reason that they say that they haven't granted consular access to Alsu. They consider her to be a Russian citizen.

  However, she was detained because of her American passport and her work for an American — for a congressionally funded American media organization. As a matter of fact, all of her appeals against the extension of her detention were rejected because of her American citizenship. So we really are in this Kafkaesque situation, where she is imprisoned because of being American, yet they're denying her American citizenship when it's convenient for them.

• Amna Nawaz:

  And when you say no consular access, that means no U.S. official has been able to go visit her, do a wellness check, anything like that?

• Pavel Butorin:

  No, they haven't allowed that at all, not a single time.

• Amna Nawaz:

  She's also not yet been deemed wrongfully detained, right? It's the determination that State Department has to make for Americans who are detained overseas.

  Do you know why that hasn't happened yet?

• Pavel Butorin:

  Well, our ultimate goal is to bring also back with or without the designation.

  And this is what I'm hearing from the U.S. government. I appreciate the support that we have received as a family. I don't think there's a lack of bipartisan support on Capitol Hill.

  That being said, I think it's important to all journalists to know that, if you are an American journalist detained in the line of duty for your work as a journalist by an adversarial regime, you're automatically designated as wrongfully detained.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Bibi, your mom first went there in June of 2023, right? And it was supposed to be, what, a couple of weeks of a trip to go visit her sick, elderly mother.

  It's turned into this nightmare that you're living now. I don't know if there are words for it, but what has this been like for you, for you and for your little sister?

• Bibi Butorin:

  I think, when I was saying goodbye to my mom at that time last year, I was really expecting it to be a short trip.

  And the fact that it's just snowballed and now we have been away from her for 14 months, it's really heartbreaking. I said that last week it was my birthday, right? And the year before, my mom wasn't here, right? And I thought to myself, OK, but next year she will be here. And now it's next year and she's not here.

  And so it's kind of just unbelievable that this is our life, because our mom is a normal mom, we're normal kids, we're a normal family, and it's crazy that something like this would be happening to us.

• Pavel Butorin:

  No matter what we say, it doesn't adequately describe the pain that we go through every day.

  We wake up thinking of Alsu. We go about our day thinking about what other humiliations she's subjected to by the Russian government. We see that empty chair at our dinner table. We go to bed thinking of her, and we dream of our reunion. I just hope that we see her again very soon.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Do you have any idea about the kind of conditions she's being kept in or held in or her health?

• Pavel Butorin:

  Our communication with Alsu has been quite limited.

  Thanks to our advocacy work, we have seen some improvement in her conditions. For a long time, she was sleeping and eating about three feet from a hole in the ground that served as a toilet, horrendous conditions really. We know that she's not receiving adequate health care. She needs treatment outside of that prison cell with a proper doctor.

  And that's something that we are not seeing.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Bibi, last month in a court appearance, your mom said that she'd last heard your voice in October. And I understand that phone calls aren't really allowed and she's allowed letters once every six weeks or so.

  When you are able to get word to her, what do you say?

• Bibi Butorin:

  I think, if I could talk to my mom right now, I would tell her that I'm so proud of her and that this is a really hard time, but we will get through it. And, most of all, your family knows that you have done nothing wrong.

• Amna Nawaz:

  I want to underscore for people you are 16 years old. You just turned 16. Your little sister is about to turn 13. I don't think anyone can imagine what this has been like for you without your mom. What do you want us to know about her as a person?

• Bibi Butorin:

  To describe my mom in one word would be impossible, because she's just so many things.

  Most of all, she's definitely a connector. Every person that she meets instantly becomes friends with her and she just has this skill of really connecting with other people. And it's an unusual place to be in. I mean, it's not every day you hear that your friend's mom is a political prisoner.

  So it's really weird. And as children growing up in the free world, we never expected it to happen to us.

• Amna Nawaz:

  If you could get a message to people who are in any position to do something about this right now, here in the U.S. government, officials in Russia, what would you say?

• Bibi Butorin:

  I would probably say that my mom does not deserve this at all, and it's hurting our family in so many ways. And, yes, we just want her back.

• Pavel Butorin:

  The Russian legal system is a sham.

  And Alsu is imprisoned not because of what she did, but because of what she represents. She is someone who emigrated, who became an American citizen, who works for a congressionally funded, editorially independent news organization. And she's being punished for living out that American dream of free speech and free expression.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Pavel Butorin, Bibi Butorin, thank you so much for being here. We are thinking of Alsu and hope to see her back with you soon. Thank you.

• Bibi Butorin:

  Thank you.