U.N. accuses Israel of pushing Gaza health system to ‘brink of total collapse’

Read the Full Transcript

• Nick Schifrin:

  Today, the U.N. Human Rights Office said that Israel's military operations in Gaza has pushed the health care system there to — quote — "the brink of total collapse" and maybe a violation of international law.

  Israel accuses Hamas of integrating its operations in the hospitals and using hospital staff as shields to attack Israel. The debate has come to a head in the last few days over the Kamal Adwan Hospital at the center of an ongoing Israeli operation in Northern Gaza.

  It was one of Northern Gaza's final lifelines. Today, it is a shell of dust and debris. This weekend, with the help of a drone, Israeli soldiers announced final evacuation orders to those left inside Kamal Adwan Hospital. Patients walked out of the hospital with their hands up, passed an Israeli tank through a war zone.

  The Israel Defense Forces says it facilitated the evacuation of more than 350 patients to hospitals in Gaza City.

  Faris Al-Afaneh was one of them.

• Faris Al-Afaneh, Patient (through interpreter):

  We were taken for interrogation at around 3:00 p.m. They stripped us naked and left us there until sunset and no one to aid us. We were left in the dust. Then one soldier would come every once in a while and would curse at us and spit at us. It was very ugly.

• Nick Schifrin:

  For months, hospital director Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya tried to alert the world, posting online, appealing for blood and supplies and conditions he described to us as catastrophic.

• Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, Director, Kamal Adwan Hospital (through translator):

  As you see now, there is one being near our hospital. We're suffering from a lack of medications and medical supply and medical stuff. One day before, one — our team doctor was killed.

• Nick Schifrin:

  To locals, he was a hero who chose to stay, despite the loss of his own son.

  But, today, he's detained by Israel, last seen in videos aired on Israeli Channel 14 in the back of an armored vehicle, accused by Israel of being a — quote — "Hamas terrorist operative." Israel said it raided the hospital because it had become a — quote — "terrorist stronghold," where gunmen hid weapons and launched attacks on Israel.

  And Israel said it arrested 240 terrorists inside the hospital, including 15 who participated in the October 7 attacks. Kamal Adwan is in the middle of a three-month-old Israeli operation in Northern Gaza that's focused on Jabalia. The Israeli military says Hamas regrouped here, storing weapons and explosives in local schools and in the waiting rooms of U.N. medical clinics.

  Jabalia still has terrorist infrastructure, including rocket launch sites.

• Lt. Col. Yoel, Israeli Defense Forces (through interpreter):

  We will reach any location where the enemy places launch facilities or anything that fires towards the citizens of the state of Israel.

• Nick Schifrin:

  But U.S. officials say, as Israel has tried to evacuate the entire area, it's not allowed in enough aid. And as the weather gets colder, underequipped Gazans grow vulnerable.

  This week, a father held his newborn who froze to death, one of six babies who in recent days have died from the cold.

  The Israeli military says one soldier was killed in combat in Northern Gaza and that operations in the north are continuing.

  For perspective on this, we get two views, Dr. Zaher Sahloul, co-founder and president of MedGlobal, a nonprofit that has provided support directly to a Kamal Adwan Hospital, and retired Israeli Brigadier General Assaf Orion, the former head of the Israel Defense Forces' strategic planning, who is now a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

  Thanks very much. Welcome, both of you, to the "News Hour."

  Zaher Sahloul, let me start with you. What is your reaction to what Israel describes as the Kamal Adwan Hospital serving as a Hamas terrorist stronghold in Northern Gaza from which terrorists have been operating throughout the war?

• Dr. Zaher Sahloul, President, MedGlobal:

  I don't believe that. It's consistent with what the Israeli army has been doing over the past year, which is basically attacking hospitals, forcing people to leave their communities, attacking health care providers.

  More than 1,000 health — attacks on health care were recorded, according to the WHO. Kamal Adwan Hospital is one of those small community hospitals that I visited multiple times before this war. I know Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya from before. I met with him. I spoke with him regularly over the past year.

  He's the essence of what medicine means. He's a pure humanitarian person. He cares about his community. He cares about providing care to the children, to the newborn. He wanted to expand his facility to provide health care to the community despite of the limitation and the siege and the war.

  And what's happening to him and to Kamal Adwan Hospital is heartbreaking. It should not be done even in the time of war and conflict.

• Nick Schifrin:

  General Orion, is Israel attacking hospitals and is this a heartbreaking attack on a doctor?

  Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion (Ret.), The Washington Institute: Israel is attacking terrorists which take refuge in hospitals, abusing the sanctuary for terrorist means.

  This is not a rumor. This is not a lie. This is actually a fact, which we have as a recurring pattern, from the Shifa Hospital to the Rantisi Hospital.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Shifa in Gaza City, the — Gaza's largest hospital.

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Yes.

  So we have many Gaza hospitals used by military or the military wing or military purposes of Hamas over the war and before the war. This is something I know from 2014, when the Shifa Hospital was actually a hub for terror organizations.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Dr. Sahloul, this has been a constant accusation by Israel and international journalists who have been there as well.

  Have you experienced that, Hamas infiltration, Hamas use of hospitals and civilian infrastructure as shields?

• Dr. Zaher Sahloul:

  Not in any hospital that I visited or my colleagues have visited. I have been in multiple hospitals during this war in medical missions.

  Hundreds of doctors from the United States and the United Kingdom and Europe worked in hospitals like Kamal Adwan and Nasser Hospital and Al Shifa before and many other hospitals, and they did not find anything suspicious. In Nasser Hospital, there was no areas that were blocked. There were no people who were shooting at the other side.

  I saw — it was similar to my hospital in Chicago. So I don't think that these accusations are true. And it should be verified by a independent organization. The World Health Organization verified also that these hospitals are providing care only and there is no terrorists there.

  So I don't know why this focus on wars on hospitals and children in Gaza. Only seven hospitals out of the 39 hospitals right now are functioning. That mean the hospitals — the communities in Gaza, the 2.1 million people, are deprived of access to health care. And this should not be done even in the war.

  Providing health care to children and women and even injured people is not a crime in the war, but attacking hospital is a crime, according to international humanitarian law.

• Nick Schifrin:

  General Orion, is it possible that there is a bright line between people who provide medical care in hospitals and the militants, the terrorists, as Israel defines them, who use these hospitals?

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Sometimes, the line is blurred, and, sometimes, it's crystal clear.

  The predecessor of Dr. Abu Safiya, Dr. Ahmad Kahalot…

• Nick Schifrin:

  Yes, the former director of the Kamal Adwan.

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Former director was apprehended, was interrogated. And everybody can watch him on the web saying: I'm a Hamas member from 2010. Many people in my crew, in my staff, my medical staff, in medical positions were actually at the same time members of the Qassam Brigades.

  That's the military wing of Hamas which, is a recognized terror organization. We found just in the last operation 15 people who participated in October 7 attack on Israel out of 240 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad members arrested in the hospital.

  So I think we're beyond the question of, is it a rumor? No, it's a pattern when Hamas is abusing hospitals as a place to launch and plan and hold terrorist attacks. Even one of our hostages were murdered in Shifa Hospital. There's no question of the use of hospitals or the abuse by the terror factions in Gaza.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Dr. Sahloul, Israel has long argued that the safeties and the protections afforded by international law to hospitals are lost because Hamas, because terrorists are using these hospitals.

  What is your response to that argument?

• Dr. Zaher Sahloul:

  First of all, statements taken under torture should not be taken as statements. And I think many people mentioned that the statements that were taken by Dr. Kahalot were taken under torture.

  The other issue, that these accusations against hospitals and care providers in Gaza were not verified by a third party. The third thing, that even if hospital was used, let's say, by an armed group or so, it does not justify to cut electricity against incubators that have newborn, or prevent patients from getting medicine, or attacking the radiology department or the ICU in the hospital, or closing the hospital altogether and depriving the community from health care.

  So these issues have to be verified. And it does not justify the unproportional reaction of the Israeli army against the health care system in Gaza.

• Nick Schifrin:

  General Orion, is — are the attacks disproportional?

  And are there strategic risks to the tactics that Israel is using when it comes to trying to figure out how to clear Gaza of what it identifies as terrorists?

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Actually, what we saw in Saturday's operation against Kamal Adwan Hospital is a very surgical operation.

  They came. They encircled the place. They vetted the people going out. They allowed 350 people to evacuate on the weeks before and 95 people to evacuate on the same day. They brought fuel and food and medicines to this hospital and to the Indonesian Hospital, to which some…

• Nick Schifrin:

  Also in Northern Gaza.

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Yes, to which some patients and staff were evacuated.

  So, actually, we're seeing Israel trying to uphold the medical care to the civilians there in a quite impressive way. It's seldom reported, but this is the reality on the ground.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Retired Brigadier General Assaf Orion, Dr. Zaher Sahloul, thank you very much to you both.

• Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion:

  Thank you.

• Dr. Zaher Sahloul:

  Thank you.