Ukraine ambassador to U.S. on peace negotiations and corruption scandal

Amna Nawaz:

Today, Ukrainian officials are meeting with U.S. Special envoy Steve Witkoff and the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner to continue negotiations over an American plan to end the war in Ukraine.

On Tuesday, Witkoff and Kushner visited Moscow to hold nearly five hours of talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Today, Putin said he endorsed only parts of the plan.

Vladimir Putin, Russian President (through translator):

This was a necessary conversation, a very concrete one. We went through each point again. Sometimes, we said, yes, we can discuss this, but with that one we cannot agree.

Amna Nawaz:

Meanwhile, Ukraine is struggling to hold key frontline towns in the Eastern region of Donetsk that have been destroyed by the war. This is a new drone video from Myrnohrad, where before the war there was a population of nearly 50,000 people.

Ukrainian soldiers inside the city are being supplied with food and water delivered by drone. Putin reiterated today his argument that Russia can capture militarily the parts of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds or Ukraine could hand them over.

With me now to discuss this and more is Ukraine's Ambassador to the United States Olga Stefanishyna.

Thank you so much for being here.

Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States: Hello, Amna. Thank you for having me.

Amna Nawaz:

Before we jump into the latest news today, I want to get your response to the report we just saw earlier from Jack Hewson about this latest corruption scandal President Zelenskyy is managing.

His right-hand man, his chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, was among those ousted as part of that scandal. The question now becomes, did President Zelenskyy know about this and look the other way or did he not know what was happening in his government? What would you say to that?

Olga Stefanishyna:

He reacted as a president publicly. He also demanded that the ministers and everybody who were part of this process are retired and subjected to a fair trial.

And also he had this dialogue with Parliament, for example, and it evolved in the decision to resign for the chief of his office. And this was also a personal decision to him. And I think, as a president, he did everything he could.

And beyond that, and he said that if there anything else will be exposed, the reaction will be the same.

Amna Nawaz:

As you well know, Yermak was leading the negotiating talks. We have heard from President Putin in the past this repeated message decrying corruption in Ukraine.

Are you worried this corruption exposure will somehow limit your leverage in peace talks?

Olga Stefanishyna:

Absolutely not.

So this is a domestic issue. And this is a case which has been raised by Ukrainian authorities, created by these government and institutions and created by the demand of Ukrainian society.

And, in fact, while it has been the major mainstream narrative of Russian Federation presenting Ukraine as a failed state, as a corrupt state, but, on the opposite, we have democratic elections, we have a democratic and functioning administrative system throughout the war, which is not the case for Russia, because even the war they have, our fighting is on our territory.

Without having it on their territory, they are still a nonfunctioning country.

Amna Nawaz:

I want to ask you now about the latest on the peace talks. Our own Nick Schifrin has some new reporting that he's heard from European officials that the U.S. is actually pushing Ukraine to give up parts of that Eastern Donetsk region that you still control, parts that Russia has failed to win, despite 11 years of war.

Can you confirm that the U.S. is pressuring Ukraine to do so?

Olga Stefanishyna:

Nothing evolved from the talks in Moscow. So, there's no basis even for a discussion on that.

Just in a couple of hours, our head of delegation, Rustem Umerov, nominated by the president, will have a meeting with Steve Witkoff, the special envoy of President Trump, to discuss the follow-up and to hear the readout from the meeting in Moscow.

But what my president have been saying, that stopping on the existing line is something that could really work to stop the war and then continue thinking onwards. But at this point, no formula is considered agreed.

Amna Nawaz:

In this process of mediation and peace talks, we know that U.S.-presented peace plan has evolved. The language has changed. Nick Schifrin has also reported that the number of troops Ukraine is allowed to have has grown from 600,000 to 800,000.

Are you satisfied with the text of the U.S. plan right now?

Olga Stefanishyna:

Well, the good thing that now the dialogue is really structured, is structured around the plan.

But also separately from the plan, there is a dialogue on the security guarantees…

Amna Nawaz:

Right.

Olga Stefanishyna:

… and dialogue with European allies on their part and that, which includes also membership in European Union.

So all of this documents, all of these issues, they should be counterbalanced. And, also, we have heard over the recent talks in Florida that ending the war is only one piece of engagement of the United States. A larger economic engagement into Ukraine is something of which is of U.S. interest.

And this is also something that really we care about.

Amna Nawaz:

Is that U.S. peace plan text final for you, or are there still changes that you want to see in there?

Olga Stefanishyna:

No, it's not final, of course, and we will be able to see what will be the next steps only after the meeting today and also after the head of our delegation will report to my president on that.

Amna Nawaz:

You mentioned there's a separate document that relates to the security guarantees. It was reported today, I should put to you, by the German outlet Der Spiegel that French President Emmanuel Macron warned on a call with European leaders and President Zelenskyy he was worried the U.S. will betray Ukraine on the issue of territory, in his words, without clarity on security guarantees.

This is based on a leaked transcript of that call. And other European leaders agreed with that concern. Do you share that concern?

Olga Stefanishyna:

We have been betrayed many times. We have been betrayed in the middle of '90s, when we abandoned all our nuclear arsenal in exchange of security guarantees that never happened.

And it was a mistake of many to think that Ukraine is too weak to withstand for itself. And I think it's not the case. We're acting — like, our line is that we're acting in a good faith, to the extent it is only possible helping and backing up the effort of the United States to secure a sustainable peace.

Amna Nawaz:

In terms of that concern, though, do you worry about U.S. interests or how they're negotiating or how they're leading these negotiations? This is also on the back of the reporting that Steve Witkoff was advising a senior Russian official on how they should tactically handle President Trump when it comes to these talks?

Do you worry that the U.S. is actually negotiating with Ukraine's best interests at heart?

Olga Stefanishyna:

Well, I think we all collectively decided to give it a chance. This is a totally new reality. These are different people with a different background.

So — and we cannot really throw all the responsibility for everything to one player, to President Trump, for example, or special envoy Witkoff. He has his own tactics when he's trying to narrow the approach to think that having discussion around the plan is something that could work. And we have to give it a try.

Meanwhile, we're negotiating with European allies on the security guarantees. We're scaling up the capability to purchase defense weapons. And we're enabling our air defense to be more capable. So everything is happening in parallel.

Amna Nawaz:

Do you worry that the U.S. will lose interest the longer this process goes on?

Olga Stefanishyna:

I think it has not been happening before, because deeply inside the souls of the American politicians, everybody understands that it's good against the evil. This is not something which is right.

And I think everybody understands that if, in the 21st century, one country attack the other, and this attack, not only the territorial thing, but also the war crimes, massive tortures and rapes and abduction of Ukrainian children, is recognized as normal just because somebody is tired of paying attention to that. I think it opens the door to any other aggression around the world, something that we were not even able to imagine to ourselves.

Amna Nawaz:

That is Ukraine's Ambassador to the United States Olga Stefanishyna joining us tonight.

Madam Ambassador, thank you for your time.

Olga Stefanishyna:

Thank you. Thank you, Amna.