Ukraine less reliant on U.S. as Trump-Zelenskyy rift deepens, former ambassador says

Amna Nawaz:

For perspective now on the tensions between President Trump and President Zelenskyy, we turn to former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor. He's now a distinguished fellow at the Atlantic Council.

Ambassador Taylor, let's begin with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy's decision to resume strikes on Russian energy targets after complying with President Trump's demand to stop those for a few days. Is that the right call for Ukraine right now?

William Taylor, Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine: Amna, it's absolutely the right call.

As you say, the president held off for three days. He had agreed to this cease-fire, energy cease-fire, that President Trump suggested or demanded without consultation. But, nonetheless, President Zelenskyy said, yes, good idea. He suggested this before. He made this proposal before.

And the Russians have always said no before, but maybe President Trump had had a conversation with President Putin and was going to get President Putin to agree this time. So President Zelenskyy stopped firing at the refineries for three days while the Russians continued to batter the Ukrainians, energy, civilian targets, killing civilians.

He couldn't -- he couldn't stop. President Zelenskyy had to resume the attacks when the Russians had never stopped.

Amna Nawaz:

Ambassador Taylor, you heard there the remarkable public expression of frustration, of anger from President Zelenskyy. Is that a risky move for a nation that is still so dependent on support from the U.S.?

William Taylor:

Amna, less support from -- less dependent on support from the U.S. at this point than it was, say, a year-and-a-half ago, because the United States doesn't provide any weapons. We don't provide any financial support. We don't provide any political leadership.

We don't lead the Ramstein process, by which we coordinate the assistance going, the military assistance going. We don't do any of that. So we're -- the Ukrainians are not so dependent on us as they were. Now, it is true that military intelligence is important to the Ukrainians coming from the United States, but they also get that from other places as well.

But in answer to your question, I guess I would not have gone the ad hominem with that. I wouldn't have made comments about President Trump and why he wants to stay in power. You know, you don't need any of that. You just stick to the results that he's after, which is pressure on Putin to stop the war.

And the pressure point on Putin to stop the war is attacks on refineries.

Amna Nawaz:

You heard Russia's Sergey Lavrov there point to the rift between the U.S. and Ukraine. At this moment, does this deterioration in relations between the U.S. and Ukraine, does that further embolden Putin? Could we see a ramping up of Russian attacks?

William Taylor:

They're already at the top of the ramping up of Russian attacks.

And, Amna, what Lavrov says, what Putin says, they would love to have this dispute, this rift, as you say. This is what their goal has been, is to cut off support for Ukraine. The United States has indicated, the Senate, the House has indicated strong support.

When you ask Americans if they support Ukraine, they do, and they oppose Russia. The United States will continue to have a strong relationship with Ukraine, and I believe this administration will as well.

Amna Nawaz:

You have heard President Trump recently strongly criticize President Zelenskyy very directly, saying Ukraine needs a new president.

We should point out Zelenskyy's term did expire back in 2024. He's operating under a constitutional wartime extension in Ukraine. What about people on the ground in Ukraine? Do they want elections? Do they want a new president?

William Taylor:

They don't, Amna. They don't. I have been there many times. I have been there 15 times since the big war started in 2022.

And I have talked to the people about -- I have talked to opposition parties, who you would think would want to have elections so they can get -- no. The opposition parties, the people, civil society, the election experts, democracy experts are all united at this point in Ukraine. They don't think elections are appropriate now.

They can't have elections now. They don't want it. They support their president for now. They're eager to have elections, Amna. They're really eager to have elections when the cease-fire comes, when the war is over. They are eager. They're going to be -- there's going to be real competition, but not now. Right now, they support their president.

Amna Nawaz:

In the 30 seconds or so I have left, I have to ask, do you see this as a new all-time low in relations between the U.S. and Ukraine?

William Taylor:

An all-time low. Again, the Ukrainians are in better shape now than they have been before because they're less dependent on us. They have seen that they can't really depend on one thing to the next day, one commitment to the day, a withdrawal of that commitment the next.

So, they're in better shape now. They have got strong support from the Europeans. That's going to keep them going, and maybe the Americans will come back as well.

Amna Nawaz:

That is former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor joining us tonight.

Ambassador Taylor, always good to speak with you. Thank you.

William Taylor:

Thank you, Amna.