What is Antifa and why Trump wants to label it a terrorist organization

Geoff Bennett:

President Trump is targeting the left-wing Antifa movement, labeling it a domestic terrorist organization, even though no such designation exists under U.S. law.

The move follows a weekend memorial for conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who was shot and killed at a college campus event less than two weeks ago. Top Republicans have been calling for increased scrutiny of Antifa since Kirk's assassination, even though so far the man accused of shooting Kirk has no publicly known link to the movement.

We're joined now by Luke Baumgartner, a research fellow with George Washington University's Program on Extremism.

Thanks for being with us.

Luke Baumgartner, Program on Extremism Research Fellow, George Washington University: Thanks for having me.

Geoff Bennett:

So what exactly is Antifa? How do you describe its core beliefs and tactics?

Luke Baumgartner:

So, simply put Antifa is just short for anti-fascist. If you want to get more simple than that it just means the opposition to fascism.

Now, their belief system has a fairly wide range of encompassing ideologies, mostly on the political left. And they encompass anarchists, socialists, communists and a lot of people in between there.

Geoff Bennett:

So how is it organized, if at all? Are there actual leaders or networks for the administration to target, or is that just a misconception?

Luke Baumgartner:

No, it's a widely held misconception, especially those who are looking to try and target this idea of Antifa. There is no hierarchical organizational structure.

It is primarily a movement and an ideology. And there are no leaders. There are no assets. There are no bank accounts or revenue streams to go after either.

Geoff Bennett:

Given all of that, is it a genuine security threat, is it a political scapegoat or something in between?

Luke Baumgartner:

I would classify it more as a political scapegoat, honestly.

There have been incidents of political violence linked to far left extremists in the U.S. in recent years, but the overwhelming majority of the data points towards far right extremism being a much more serious threat to national security.

Geoff Bennett:

Tell me more about that.

Luke Baumgartner:

In the last five, six, seven years or the last 10 years more broadly, we have seen a rise in left-wing or left-aligned political violence. You can look at the shooting at the congressional baseball game as one or the recent attacks on a ICE facility or the CBP station down at Texas.

But data bears out time and time again from the University of Maryland, from the Center for Strategic and International Studies as well as my own work at the Program on Extremism that political violence in the U.S. has overwhelmingly been attributed to those on the far end of the political spectrum.

Geoff Bennett:

President Trump signing an executive order designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization, a label that doesn't exist in U.S. law, what legal weight, if any, does that carry?

Luke Baumgartner:

Not much, to be honest.

Like you said, there is no codified prohibition for domestic terrorist groups in the U.S. That does not exist in U.S. penal code, the way it would for foreign terrorist organizations like al-Qaida or ISIS. So the full brunt and the full weight of the U.S. government and law enforcement agencies can't exactly come down on it like they would for others.

And, as I mentioned before, there's no bank accounts, there's no revenue streams, and there's no well-known or at least well-documented proof of funding.

Geoff Bennett:

So does this move then give the administration cover to brand and prosecute virtually anyone it opposes as Antifa?

Luke Baumgartner:

I would say so, and that label has been used in the past. Any time there's been any sort of resistance to far right extremism or any of the administration's policies, the 5150 protests, the No Kings protests, the Black Lives Matter protests, that was always labeled as Antifa.

And it's this nebulous concept that's been put into the minds of the administration that these are the enemies.

Geoff Bennett:

Luke Baumgartner with George Washington University's Program on Extremism, thank you for being with us.

Luke Baumgartner:

Of course.