What the food benefit cuts mean for state aid systems

Amna Nawaz:

And we're going to spend some time now focusing on what these delays and cuts in food aid mean for Americans at both the national and the local level.

Let's start with the national picture.

For that, I'm joined by Cindy Long, former deputy undersecretary of the USDA's SNAP program.

Welcome. Thanks for being here.

Cindy Long, Former USDA Deputy Undersecretary:

I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Amna Nawaz:

Let's just start with your reaction to the latest here. Federal judges say that freezing SNAP payments is unlawful. The Trump administration says it will restart those payments, but only paying people half the amount they normally get. What's your reaction to that?

Cindy Long:

Well, I'm certainly glad that the administration is going to comply with the court order and utilize all of these contingency funds that are available and have always been understood to be available to fund SNAP.

But as we learned, there's not enough there to cover the full month of November benefits. So — and there will be some challenges getting these out as timely as possible, given the delay that occurred because of the decision not to use them. So it is certainly good to have some benefits flowing, but I think we need to be thinking immediately about what happens next.

Amna Nawaz:

What does happen next for people getting half the amount they normally get? And explain to us why that delay in terms of what funds are going out and how it ends up on people's charges?

Cindy Long:

Sure.

Well, in a normal process, the federal government provides funds. Every month, the states run their data systems and create a giant file with all the information that's needed to issue benefits. They turn that over to a processor and the benefits go on the cards. That didn't — that usually happens well in advance of the 1st of the month, didn't happen this time.

So now what needs to happen is, FNS will release the funds quickly and give states some direction about how to reduce them because of the limited funds. They're going to have to rerun everything to get that reduced level into the system.

Amna Nawaz:

The states will have to do that each at their own level.

Cindy Long:

The states will each have to do that at their own level, again, at this reduced level, so they're going to have to redo whatever work they have already done.

Amna Nawaz:

Yes.

Cindy Long:

Work with their contractors and get them out.

I think state systems vary in their nimbleness in how quickly they can respond. So I think we will see varying timelines across the country.

Amna Nawaz:

We have seen the federal government find funds, shift funds from one pot to another. Could they be, should they be doing that in this case to make whole those SNAP beneficiaries?

Cindy Long:

Well, I think the answer is they could and they should have. USDA does have another source that they can tap and that has been available for a while. It's an account that funds the school lunch program and other child nutrition programs.

And because of the nature of those funds, it is fairly cash-rich right now. And USDA has the ability to move funds from that account over to SNAP to help bridge the gap. They said today that they weren't planning to do that. But I will note that is one of the sources that they have been using to help keep the WIC program running, which is the right thing to do.

And I think that's another source that needs to be looked at very carefully should this shutdown continue.

Amna Nawaz:

What about states? Is there any way they can step in to help fill that shortfall?

Cindy Long:

Well, some states had already announced, given that administration's previous decision, that they were going to try to do that.

But the scale of a state budget compared to what the feds can do is just not comparable. And I think, in most cases, the states were not going to be in a position to fulfill benefits for the entire month, which really just puts tremendous pressure on the beneficiaries and the emergency feeding system, food banks, and everyone else who is trying to step in and help folks.

Amna Nawaz:

Big picture, when you look at what we're dealing with here, the USDA, we know, cited the government shutdown as the reason for its decision to freeze those SNAP funds. That's the first time it's happened in six decades of that program being in place in this country.

Cindy Long:

Yes.

Amna Nawaz:

And families are now dealing with this at a time of rising food prices, rising power bills. How would you describe the situation that people who rely on this program now find themselves in?

Cindy Long:

Well, there — it is a precarious situation. They have spent the last week or so believing that they may not have any benefits available at all this month. I know that the food banks and the emergency feeding system has seen a huge spike in demand.

So — but from the perspective of families, I imagine that they are relieved that something is going to be flowing, but they don't know when, and they don't know what's going to happen after this 50 percent benefit is used. So I imagine that they're under tremendous stress and already thinking about how they're going to trade off things like, do I fill my prescription this month or do I feed my kids or grandkids?

Do I pay the rent this month or do I try to put a little more money of whatever limited resources I have aside for food? It's a horrible situation. And it's important to remember that about 70 percent of SNAP households are children, elderly, or disabled. So this is a vulnerable population that is being put in a very precarious situation.

Amna Nawaz:

Cindy Long, former deputy undersecretary of that SNAP program under USDA, thank you for being here.

Cindy Long:

Thank you for having me.