What Trump’s return to power will mean for Jan. 6 rioters

Amna Nawaz:

A Delaware federal judge formally dismissed the case against President Biden's son Hunter this morning following the president's sweeping pardon. Some legal analysts have expressed concerns that the president's pardon of his son gives president-elect Trump a road map to protect his political allies.

Mr. Trump hinted on social media yesterday he would do so, saying — quote — "Does the pardon given by Joe to Hunter include the J6 hostages?"

Kyle Cheney, Politico's senior legal affairs reporter, has been following the fallout of the president's pardon and the impact it could have on a second Trump term.

Kyle, welcome back. Thanks for being with us.

Kyle Cheney, Senior Legal Affairs Reporter, Politico:

Good to be with you. Thanks for having me.

Amna Nawaz:

So let me start with those January 6 cases here, which I know you have been following closely. Just to bring people up to date, so far, some 1,500 people have been charged, more than 1,500. Nearly 1,000 have pleaded guilty.

More than 600 have been sentenced to jail time. So to this question, Kyle, what kind of impact could the Biden pardon for his son Hunter have on those cases?

Kyle Cheney:

I mean, in theory, it shouldn't have a connection. But I think what you're seeing is a reaction from Trump's allies, saying, look, if he's going to pardon his son basically for personal reasons, then why shouldn't Donald Trump exercise his sweeping pardon authority in the same sort of political way?

Now, look, Trump has signaled that he planned to pardon many of these people, these January 6 defendants, for months. It was a big part of his campaign. But does this embolden him to go further and maybe make that pardon more expansive and more complete for either the larger group or for the alleged crimes that they committed? That's the question as to what the impact might be.

Amna Nawaz:

And you have been covering these cases so closely. I mean, if some kind of blanket pardon like that was issued, what would be the impact? How would that be perceived?

Kyle Cheney:

I mean, it would be fairly seismic. And I do wonder, I have written a bit about this too, that is Donald Trump going to pardon or somehow provide relief to the people who were accused of or pleaded guilty to assaulting police officers?

That's a major question. Donald Trump has not said a word about his intentions in any specific sort of way since winning the election. And so one of the questions, is he prepared for the backlash and for consequences of potentially exonerating — or not exonerating, but pardoning or providing some kind of clemency to people who did attack cops that day?

Amna Nawaz:

And beyond the January 6 rioters now, we know in the past, Mr. Trump, when he was president, did use his broad powers to pardon people who were close to him, even members of his family, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Ivanka Trump's father-in-law, Charles Kushner, as well.

We should know that those were all tied to specific cases and specific allegations of specific crimes that those pardons were linked to. Does the sweeping nature of this pardon by President Biden, does that offer Mr. Trump broader political powers for the future?

Kyle Cheney:

No, he had that authority to begin with, but the difference is here that Biden has sort of blazed this trail now.

This is an unprecedented pardon. I mean, the exception is Richard Nixon, but even Richard Nixon's pardon only covered his term in office. The Hunter Biden pardon was far beyond that, 11 years of any conduct that may have been criminal, stuff that may not have even been unearthed at this point. And so that's really the crux of this.

It's not that Trump doesn't have that authority. It's just that that authority has never been used that way, with the one exception arguably of Richard Nixon. And that creates a sort of permission structure that I think Trump could take advantage of, at least a political argument, that, look, if Biden did this, why can't Donald Trump do this?

Amna Nawaz:

So it's worth noting there are still hundreds, I believe over 500, correct me if I'm wrong, January 6 case is still pending. So back when Matt Gaetz was the nominee to be attorney general, we knew to some degree what direction those might take. He had said that he was supportive of the rioters on January 6.

He voiced that support for them a number of times. He's withdrawn his nomination. Pam Bondi is now the new nominee to be attorney general. What would she mean and her leadership at the agency mean for the future of those January 6 cases?

Kyle Cheney:

That is a great question. And it's a question that I pondered and still haven't really got any answer to, in part because she has said virtually nothing about January 6 since January 6.

I have asked about what her views are on it. We have gotten no answer there. Matt Gaetz was a known quantity, in that he embraced certain conspiracy theories about January 6. Clearly, he was on the side of maximal clemency for this group of rioters and alleged rioters. And Pam Bondi is just an unknown quantity.

Now, people expect her to be loyal to Donald Trump and do what he wants her to do. But the question is, she also has the history of the prosecutor and maybe a little bit more sympathetic to the prosecutors at the Justice Department who have put some of these people in jail. And so we just don't know.

And maybe we will find out at her confirmation hearings.

Amna Nawaz:

January 6 investigations represented the largest criminal probe by the Department of Justice in the agency's history. When you talk to your sources inside, how are they looking at all this, the potential for pardons and an uncertain future ahead for the cases they're still working on?

Kyle Cheney:

Yes, I think there's just a pervasive sense of anxiety right now about the unknown. They don't know how — is Donald Trump really going to follow through on these promises to clean house there? What does that look like?

Is anyone who worked on a January 6 case going to be fired? Can he even do that? And so I just think it's a lot of anxiety, that Attorney General Garland has encouraged people to stay, not to — even if they feel like they're going to run up against the new administration, that it's better to stay and try to help steer things in a direction that they feel confident in, as opposed to leave and let Donald Trump install his own people to do things in a very different way.

But — so I just think anxiety and uncertainty is the best way to describe it at the moment.

Amna Nawaz:

That is Kyle Cheney, a Politico senior legal affairs reporter, joining us tonight.

Kyle, thank you for your time. Always good to see you.

Kyle Cheney:

Thanks for having me.