Why Egypt’s proposed plan to end Gaza war met resistance from both sides

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Late today, the Pentagon said a U.S. warship shot down 12 drones, three anti-ship ballistic missiles and two land-attack cruise missiles that were fired by the Yemen-based Houthis. Meanwhile, the death toll in Gaza is nearing 21,000, mostly women and children, according to Palestinian officials. And the path to a real political solution to the end of the war still seems far off.

  To discuss what this means for Palestinians trapped in Gaza, I spoke earlier today with Palestinian political analyst Nour Odeh.

  Nour, welcome back to the "NewsHour." Thanks for joining us.

• Nour Odeh, Former Palestinian Government Spokesperson:

  Thank you for having me, Amna.

• Amna Nawaz:

  I'd love to ask you about this proposed peace plan that we saw put forward yesterday by Egypt and Qatar. It essentially calls for a cease-fire, calls for the phased release of hostages held by Hamas and also Palestinians held by Israel, and for a united technocratic Palestinian government that would oversee Gaza and the West Bank.

  Just, when you saw this peace plan, what was your take? What did you make of it?

• Nour Odeh:

  Well, I mean, it wasn't very surprising in its attempt to phase in a permanent cease-fire, so to speak, because it does seem that the parties are very far apart.

  But I was a bit puzzled that the Egyptians would also include negotiations with Israel and the U.S. really on the internal Palestinian issue of who governs and how, because this is a very contentious issue and a very delicate one.

  And I think it would have been much easier for Egypt to kind of do a little bit of housekeeping with the Palestinians first before it kind of put it up there for everybody to weigh in. And now we know that pretty much everybody has said no to the proposal.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, we know Hamas' opposition reportedly is based on the fact that they don't want anyone else to run Gaza, right?

  So set aside for a moment what Israel would or wouldn't sign on to. Would Hamas support a peace plan that doesn't include them in charge? Would Palestinians support Hamas not being in charge?

• Nour Odeh:

  Well, I think this is not a zero sum game. I think Hamas would be open to a formulation where it is — it remains part of the political scene, because that is inevitable.

  There's no way that Hamas is going to cease to exist. And everybody, I think, has to come to terms with that. But to have a technocratic government, I don't think would be a contentious issue. It's more the other details of how this would happen, how unity would come about. What kind of role would Hamas have in the wider political context in the Palestinian political scene?

  These are things that Palestinians need to agree on and that, quite, frankly, the world has to come to terms with, because if this veto on who can — who is an acceptable Palestinian political player continues, then there is more of a chance that this war will continue, will persist, and we will see more death and destruction until the realities set in and people understand that there's no way you can cancel an ideology or prevent a significant player from taking part in Palestinian politics without setting everybody up for civil war.

• Amna Nawaz:

  But, Nour, as you know, Israel has said that one of their main goals, one of their prerequisites here is that Hamas is eradicated. So what does a future with Hamas look like in Gaza?

  Are you saying there's a difference between the political wing surviving without the military wing? Would Israel ever accept that?

• Nour Odeh:

  Well, I'm not sure we need Israel's opinion this, because, quite frankly, Palestinians don't get to have a say about who the Israelis have in government.

  And right now, in Israel, you have a man who's been convicted eight times of terrorism-related charges in Israel as the minister of national security. You have a self-avowed fascist in charge of Palestinian affairs and the Ministry of Finance. So, it is not — it should not be up to the Israelis.

  The Hamas is not only present in Gaza. And so degrading its military capability, toppling its de facto government in Gaza doesn't mean that Hamas is going to cease to exist. And that's really the reality I'm talking about. We need to understand that the Palestinian political scene is not exclusive to Gaza, and it is much wider than that.

  It's in the West Bank. It's also in exile, and that Palestinians need to be able to come up with a formula that they can live with and that can be functional and inclusive and representative in order for things to move forward, and in order for dialogue about ending the occupation and the root cause of all this misery can actually commence with international support.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Nour, all of this is coming as there's another conversation in Israel, more public now, about the displacement of Palestinians.

  There was an opinion piece published by The Jerusalem Post by an academic named Joel Roskin, who's a geologist at Bar-Ilan University. The title of that was "Why Moving to the Sinai Peninsula is the Solution For Gaza's Palestinians." There's also been reports recently about Prime Minister Netanyahu talking about supporting voluntary migration of Palestinians to other countries.

  What do you make of this conversation becoming more public now?

• Nour Odeh:

  Well, I think that the Israelis are more comfortable talking about a potential atrocity crime, as experts of international law have warned.

  In my opinion, this was the plan all along, starving a population, depriving them of food and water, destroying the infrastructure, breaking down the health system, making sure that the region occupied now is basically uninhabitable, and pushing the majority of the population into a small, tiny portion at the Egyptian border.

  It was all meant to kind of nudge the population, if not outright forcibly expel it, into the Sinai. And now they're more comfortable saying that, probably because they haven't really had any pushback about all the other violations of international law that have been committed for over 80 days now.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, Israel, I must put to you, will say this has all been about national security, right, that October 7 changed everything, the steps that they're taking now are to make sure that horrific day never happens again.

  What would you say to that?

• Nour Odeh:

  Well, it's convenient to kind of put a line in the sand and start counting from October 7.

  But everybody understands around the world that this didn't start on October 7, that Palestinians have been enduring a reality of persecution and dispossession and Israeli foreign occupation for 75 years. That's really at the heart of all of this and the fact that it's been a political dead end for Palestinians, that you have an Israeli prime minister who's committed publicly to preventing the realization of Palestinian self-determination, of Palestinian statehood.

  That's what got us here, in addition to international complacency, I have to say. So one would hope that, out of all of this tragedy, out of this misery and these atrocities now committed, the world would understand that they need to change the playbook and they need to answer those root causes. Otherwise, we're going to end up right where we started, with the seeds of future conflicts very present and very ripe for the picking.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Political analyst Nour Odeh joining us tonight from Ramallah.

  Nour, thank you for your time.

• Nour Odeh:

  Thank you for having me.