Why the U.S. is pressuring China amid a crackdown on the global fentanyl trade

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• John Yang:

  This past week, the Biden administration moved against China based firms and executives blamed for importing chemicals used to make the synthetic opioid fentanyl which is up to 50 times stronger than heroin. It's part of the government's effort to disrupt the global illegal drug trade and stem the opioid epidemic.

  Ali Rogin spoke with Vanda Felbab-Brown of the Brookings Institution.

• Ali Rogin:

  Vanda Felbab-Brown, thank you so much for joining us. Tell us about how Chinese entities are working with Mexican drug cartels to produce and distribute fentanyl.

• Vanda Felbab-Brown, The Brookings Institute:

  Well, thank you for having me. China is the principal source of precursor chemicals from which Mexican cartels synthetize fentanyl. So various Chinese brokers individuals, sometimes larger family based networks and companies produce and sell these precursors to Mexico often very knowingly enabling the cartels in synthesizing fentanyl. They even provide recipes to the cartels how to make fentanyl out of them.

• Ali Rogin:

  The Biden administration has made very clear that the actions that they've been taking over the past few months are part of a very deliberate effort to stop the global fentanyl trade. Why is the U.S. stepping up these actions now?

• Vanda Felbab-Brown:

  Well for well over a year we have had no meaningful cooperation from the government of China and frankly we have had minimal and in adequate cooperation from the government of Mexico as well.

  In 2018, 2019, we had the height of China's cooperation in trying to stop the flows of precursors and fentanyl out of China. At the time China scheduled the entire class of fentanyl type drugs as a scheduled substance, requiring that permits are obtained for the production of fentanyl, class drugs and their exports.

  And that's changed the patterns of the illegal trade. Instead of fentanyl being shipped directly to the United States, these precursor chemicals would now be shipped to Mexican cartels that sanitize fentanyl from it.

  But after that China has significantly scaled back cooperation. Why? Because it had expected that the Trump administration would lessen the economic tariffs on Chinese goods. And then it expected that the Biden administration will take a softer geostrategic approach to China neither happened. In fact, we have seen significant increase in tensions between the two countries,

  China in general subordinates its law enforcement cooperation with other countries to its other objectives. And with countries where the economic or geostrategic relationship is not what it wants, it weakens or altogether suspense cooperation.

  The Biden administration has attempted to redress this lack of cooperation in several ways. One is the set of prosecutions that we are seeing. They found an important way to get around the fact that many of the precursors being sold and legal nonscheduled chemicals. It has also engaged the Chinese government when Secretary Blinken was in China in the spring, the issue of fentanyl and counter narcotics came up.

  And that seemed to be a hopeful moment when Chinese officials, Chinese interlocutors started looking back and reviving the possibility of a joint fentanyl working group. Certainly seeing that move ahead would be important in July organizing the first summit of a global coalition against the threat of synthetic drugs. And hopefully this joint international effort to put pressure on China will pay off.

• Ali Rogin:

  This is also affecting the U.S. relationship with Mexico. Attorney General Garland and other senior U.S. officials were in Mexico this week talking about this issue. What is the role of the Mexican government then?

• Vanda Felbab-Brown:

  Well, unfortunately, just as with China, we also have had really inadequate cooperation from the government of Mexico ever since President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador came to office in Mexico, so much so that even earlier this year, in the spring, we have had President Lopez Obrador making claims that there is no fentanyl produced in Mexico, even though we know that Mexico is the predominant place that fentanyl sympathized (ph).

  In recent weeks, there has been more effort on the part of the Mexican government to restart at least some cooperation. And the meeting that you mentioned between Mexican officials and high level U.S. officials is part of that spirit to see whether we could get toward some more meaningful corporations that have been some progress.

  And most importantly, the Mexican government extradited Ovidio Guzman, one of the leaders of the Sinaloa Cartel to the United States, just in recent days. But we really need to get to a space where U.S. law enforcement agents can in the field operate with Mexican counterparts. We don't have that right now. We need to also get to a state where the Mexican government is far more willing to confront the cartels than assaults.

• Ali Rogin:

  What impact do these announcements actually have on the global fentanyl trade?

• Vanda Felbab-Brown:

  I do hope that at minimum, they will help shrink the pool of actors in China who are willing to violate laws, at least U.S. laws and international laws. If instead of having thousands of potential suppliers, we shrink through these indictments through deterrence, those who are willing to supply to hundreds or tens. That's an important accomplishment.

  Your question touches at the core of what comes in narcotics efforts have been grappling with over the past decades the so called balloon effect, that as long as demand persists, as someone will step in even if production is suppressed in one place, or precursor chemicals are suppressed in one place, they will move to another place. That will be the reality with us.

  But the answer is not to simply give up and allow unmitigated supply to come. The lesser the supply, the more the supply is in places where we have good cooperation when network networks can be dismantled, the better off we are.

• Ali Rogin:

  Vanda Felbab-Brown with the Brookings Institution. Thank you so much for your time.

• Vanda Felbab-Brown:

  Thank you for having me.