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Meet the Team
Mark Whitby, Engineer
NOVA: Can you describe what your everyday work is like
when you're not called off to Egypt to help raise an
obelisk?
WHITBY: I'm a partner in an engineering practice that
builds a whole range of structures, from buildings to bridges.
Some are quite ordinary, small-scale projects, and quite a
number are large-scale projects. But in my time I've been
involved in quite special projects, like buildings in
Antarctica, or special "millennium bridges," which are part of
a riverside landscape scheme that's meant to extend the
enjoyment of rivers in York and Lancaster.
NOVA: Have you had any previous experience with a
project like the obelisk-raising one?
WHITBY: I worked on the NOVA Stonehenge program with
the stonemason Roger Hopkins. And much to our surprise, we
were able to move a 40-ton stone, turn it up on its end and
put a another stone on top of it. That's why I'm involved on
this occasion. The raising of the obelisk, particularly after
all the effort that's gone into it, is quite different from
putting up a trilithon at Stonehenge.
NOVA: Yes, in fact you used a different method with the
Stonehenge project than you'll be using this time, and it
seemed to work beautifully. Why are you trying a new method
for raising the obelisk?
WHITBY: At Stonehenge we literally threw the stone into
a hole. The obelisk fits on top of a large plinth and has had
considerable work put into it before it's been erected. You're
talking about thousands if not millions of man-hours of work
in getting this stone out of the ground and then carving it
before it's erected. It's quite clear that it has to be
treated very gently. I wouldn't like to mention what happened
to the person in charge of erecting one of these obelisks in
the past, had it broken when he was putting it up. There is a
story of a pharaoh tying one of his children to the tip, in
order to make sure that the obelisk was treated with due
deference. They're very, very special things and would have
been handled very gently.
Mark Whitby supervised the NOVA Stonehenge project
with great success.
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NOVA: How important do you think your experience is, as
an engineer, to the outcome of this project?
WHITBY: As an engineer, I think one has a way of
thinking that has been developed by working with objects,
which is terribly relevant. I appreciate the need to think
things through in detail, although I can guarantee you that we
won't be able to anticipate all the problems that will happen
in advance. Our job is to literally plan the process: Think
about what might go wrong, try and remedy that, and actually
calculate (I believe they calculated in those days, although
they may not have used quite the same systems as we do today)
calculate what will happen as we do it, so you can anticipate
how strong the rope needs to be and what the effect of the
flexibility of the rope is, and what numbers of people you
need to apply the necessary forces to make it work.
NOVA: How will this attempt be different from the
obelisk-raising attempt in 1994?
WHITBY: It's fundamentally different. It'll be a much
more gradual process. We learned things when we put up
Stonehenge, which made me realize there are other ways of
doing things. Clearly there are always a number of ways of
doing things. On this occasion, we're aiming to use a modest
number of people—not necessarily any less than we used
at Stonehenge—but we aim to operate with a much higher
degree of control. The ambition is to literally rotate the
obelisk onto its base. And then, at the final moment, just
pull it to upright. Obviously, if you pull too hard when
you're pulling it upright, you can pull it over. So you need
to be very careful. It's a big object. It weighs a lot. And if
you pulled it over, you could be guaranteed that you'd have
been the next person to volunteer for—
NOVA: —for quarrying ?
WHITBY: Yes. Or even worse. This time we're aiming to
literally pull it. And as it turns, the center of gravity
moves nearer and nearer to the turning point. So you've got to
be careful. If you had to turn it on the center of gravity,
very quickly the center of gravity—which lies in the
middle of the stone, whereas the turning point lies on the
bottom face of the stone—moves in front, so the obelisk
runs out of control. What we have to do is remain in control
all the time, so that it doesn't suddenly take over, in which
case you could be guaranteed problems.
NOVA: What do you think is the most difficult aspect of
this whole project?
WHITBY: Co-ordinating with
Owain Roberts
and
Roger Hopkins,
no doubt!
I already know Roger, having worked with him before. I know
it'll be fun. On Stonehenge, one had no idea of whether it
would work. Now I'm a little more confident about things.
Owain, on the other hand, I don't really know yet. He has a
hard task ahead of him - we've got to rely very much on his
naval skills and his ability to tie knots. And it's terribly
important that we get that right. Any slippage in the ropes is
going to cause the thing to move out of position.
NOVA: What odds do you give the project of
succeeding?
WHITBY: I would conservatively say better than 50/50.
In my mind, it shouldn't be a great problem. We're not talking
about the biggest obelisk in the world. We're talking about 40
tons as opposed to 400 tons. And the Egyptians had confidence;
they thought about cutting out 1,000-ton obelisks. If we can't
do it with 40 tons, we've really got to question what's going
on.
What's nice about this project is it does humble one and makes
one appreciate much more the skill of the time. The strange
thing is that history tends to imagine that people are
constantly improving and learning new things. As they
constantly improve and learn new things, they forget some
things. What this will expose is just how much we've
forgotten.
NOVA: Do you think that the methods you're using this
time might be the method that they used?
WHITBY: I think we'll be fairly close. We can never be
sure exactly how they did it. We're fairly certain they may
have used a number of methods. The nice thing about working
with
Mark Lehner is
that Mark gives you an insight into their ability at the time.
And there's quite a lot of evidence of their ability to put up
large earth ramps; there's evidence in terms of turning
grooves in the stones, which presumably lie in the direction
the obelisks would have come down from. When it comes to the
point of literally turning the obelisk through the last few
degrees, we'll be as near as possible to whatever they might
have done themselves, because the stone will be in that
position. There will always be a question about whether they
used a great sand mound and had means of excavating it. But I
would imagine that there would have been a number of ways of
putting up obelisks in their day. We'll be very close to one
of them.
NOVA: What do you expect to learn from this whole
project?
WHITBY: Probably just how difficult it is to get
everything organized to do a project like this in the current
culture. When we were in Stonehenge we had British contractors
around; we were able to put a lot of things together that were
based on modern day abilities. We had a crane and other
things. In Egypt it's going to be a bit tougher than that. We
won't be able to just run out the door and buy something.
NOVA: It'll keep you honest.
WHITBY: It's going to be hard work, you know.
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