INTERVIEW WITH ETHAN ZUCKERMAN
Livelyhood:
What does globalization mean to you?
Ethan:
IWow - jumping right into the hard stuff! No warm-ups for me, huh? :-)
The world is shrinking. Not physically, of course, but conceptually. Increasingly,
we're all aware that the world is bigger than our neighborhood, our hometown, our nation,
and our continent. We've all been aware of the rest of the world, but we're interacting
with it to a greater degree than ever before. Sometimes these interactions are
unquestionably beneficial: though I live in rural New England, I'm able to go out
for Thai food, catch an Iranian film at the local theatre and listen to Nigerian music
on the radio as I drive home. Other times these interactions are more painful:
my neighbor gets laid off because his employer closes a manufacturing facility in
Pittsfield, MA and opens a new one in Mexico. This shrinking, the good and the bad,
is globalization.
One of the reasons the Internet captured public attention in the US in the late 90's so
effectively is that it was the first truly globalized medium. Looking at a web page,
it's very difficult to tell whether the author is in Miami or Malaysia. Start doing
business over the Internet and you discover that you are competing on a global playing
field. Start a bookstore in a small town and you're competing against the other local
bookstores and perhaps, against Barnes and Noble at the mall a few miles away. Start a
bookstore on the web and you're competing against Amazon. Period. There's no locality
on the web - every market is a global market. That's what's coming in the unwired world
as well - markets for goods and services are increasingly becoming a single global market.
While economics is a good way to understand globalization, it misses the "magnitude of
the phenomenon." This isn't a political or economic development: it's a historical
force, like the industrial revolution. The move from economies based on individual
craftsmen to one based on factories in the industrial revolution had effects on
everything from our educational system to the creation of fast food. Globalization
is a force of the same magnitude. Talking about "stopping globalization" is unrealistic
- and probably not what anti-globalization protesters actually want. There's no question,
though, that there are scary globalization scenarios - where globalization leads to
increasing homogeneity instead of increasing diversity - that are worth fighting against.
In the afternoon, we were driven to a factory about
twenty minutes outside of Phnom Pehn. It's on a
stretch of road called Vreng Sreng Highway which is
really a bumpy dirt road. Actually, all of the roads
in Phnom Pehn are unpaved except for a few of the main
ones. I have yet to see a traffic light. Still,
traffic seems to move along at a fairly relaxed pace
unlike other Asian cities I've been too. Our driver is
a Zen master at weaving his way through the
motorbikes, flatbed trucks, minivans and bicyclists.
We arrived at the factory around 4:30pm which must
have been a shift break at several factories because
there were hundreds of women with badges walking down
the "highway." I'm glad we scouted; we gotta get this
shot for the segment.
Livelyhood:
In your opinion what are the benefits/consequences of globalization?
Ethan:
I don't think we know yet whether we're going to get the globalization we fear
or the globalization we dream about. The benefits and consequences of globalization
have a great deal to do with whether we're intelligent and thoughtful about how
we approach globalization, or whether we're blindly accepting...
or blindly resistant.
I'm worried about a future in which globalization leads to a more boring world; I'm
enthusiastic about a future where globalization leads to increasing diversity. In other
words, I understand and accept that a shrinking world means that there will eventually
be a McDonald's in Accra. That's okay with me if, and only if, you can still get
fufu in Accra, and even better if it means you can get good fufu in New York City.
The globalization I'm interested in promoting is bi-directional globalization - I
think it's crucial that while American culture has an influence on cultures around
the globe, that other cultures have an influence on America.
One of the reasons I'm so excited about the impact of information technology on emerging
nations is that it makes this sort of bi-directionality possible. McDonald's and Coca-Cola
have tremendous resources that allow them to expand their reach into rural Nigeria, for
instance. So how does the composer in rural Nigeria market his music to the US? The
Internet doesn't level the playing field entirely - not by a long shot - but it
does open possibilities that never existed before. Our goal with Geekcorps is to
help arm businesspeople, artists and craftspeople around the world with the tools
they need to make sure they can sell their goods to a world market, so we can
help ensure that globalization ends up being bi-directional.
Livelyhood:
What are the roles of multinational organizations in smaller developing nations?
Ethan:
Unfortunately there's probably a disconnection between what the roles are and what they should be.
My thought is that multi-laterals and other outside agencies should view themselves as
providing otherwise unobtainable resources to people in developing nations who are initiating
innovative projects. That's what we try to do with Geekcorps - find folks who have already
initiated businesses and provide the technology expertise they'd otherwise lack to help
them accomplish their goals. I think multi-laterals and other development organizations
get themselves into trouble when they forget to listen to the people they're trying to
help. There's a real danger, as an outsider, of looking at a problem and concluding
that your job is to solve a problem that you understand imperfectly. I think that by
understanding your role as a resource rather than as the sole problem-solver,
organizations like ours can avoid some of the paternalism multi-laterals are
occasionally accused of.
Livelyhood:
Did you encounter any resistance when you first conceptualized Geek Corps?
Ethan:
Not "resistance" so much as "valid concerns." We experienced very little resistance in
Ghana - we were welcomed with open arms by both the government and the private sector.
Friends in the US expressed two (very different) sets of concerns. Some friends
involved with international development expressed skepticism that information
technology was an important priority for the nations we were planning on working with.
Some of this skepticism comes from overly ambitious promises offered by IT professionals
naive about the challenges of development. (Tele-medicine will replace medical clinics!
We don't need schools if we have distance learning! Yeah, right.) I spent a lot of time
talking with these friends, reassuring them that we saw IT development as a complement
to other development efforts, not a replacement. Once these friends understood that
Geekcorps had the goal of helping people make better livings, and that our main
contribution to development was to grow economies through growing small businesses,
many of the skeptics became supporters of the idea.
When we were first talking about Geekcorps, in late '99, some of my friends from
the Internet industry were incredulous that I'd consider stepping away from the
dot.com business to work on a nonprofit. With the energy and creativity in the
dot.com space at that time, and the vast quantities of money being invested, they
had an interesting point: why not work on another dot.com startup and hope to make
enough money to fund projects like Geekcorps out of my own pocket? I'm glad I
resisted the temptation - not only did I follow my heart and work on the project
I really wanted to work on, I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines when the
Internet market came crashing down in mid-2000.
Livelyhood:
Why Ghana?
Ethan:
Two reasons. One, Ghana's a great place to try out a program like this one. There's
incredible enthusiasm within the nation for the Internet and for the possibility of
being more closely tied to the rest of the world. The government has taken major
steps towards liberalizing telecommunications and making it possible for individuals
to set up ISPs. There's a small but active population of Ghanaian expatriates
returning to Ghana with business knowledge from the US and Europe - they're an
important part of the growing IT business scene in Ghana. Basically, there's a
feeling that Ghana could become the IT hub for the West African region and great
enthusiasm for making this idea become reality. Hence, Ghana's a great place to
concentrate our efforts in these early stages - businesses are psyched about
participating and we don't have to spend much effort marketing within Accra.
The second reason is more personal. I really love Ghana. I lived in Accra in 1993-4
on a Fulbright grant, studying traditional Ghanaian percussion, and had a fantastic
time. I've remained close to friends in Ghana and have been looking for
opportunities to spend more time in the country. Starting the Geekcorps
program in Ghana was a great way to give something back to a country
that's been a wonderful host to me in the past.
Livelyhood:
In the next 10-years what do you see for the future of Geek Corps
Ethan:
Well, in the next three years, I expect we'll expand Geekcorps to 5 to 10 more countries.
I think it's important that we expand our base of operations not only so we can work with
more businesses, but so we can start learning lessons about what works and what doesn't
work in technology transfer in emerging nations. We've learned a ton about technology
transfer in Ghana... but it's unclear whether those lessons we've learned are Ghana-specific
or whether they're applicable in other nations. I'd like to get a more diverse base of
experience so we can offer better guidance to the organizations that seek our help.
Long term, I'd like Geekcorps to become an institution analogous to the Peace
Corps for the technology world. In the same way that most college students consider -
at least for a moment or two - joining the Peace Corps after graduation, I'd like
everyone who works in the technology industry to know about Geekcorps, and at least
consider a Geekcorps tour. I'd like dozens of technology companies to regularly
send staff people overseas through Geekcorps, working with us to improve their
understanding of the global technology economy. I'd love to see Geekcorps working
in several dozen countries and sending thousands of volunteers overseas every year.
I think that creating an institution on that scale would have some interesting side
effects - as geeks around the globe recognize their kinship, I think we'd see the
IT field become truly global very quickly.
Livelyhood:
How is Geek Corps changing with the times? How are you adapting your organization in a growing global economy.
Ethan:
: The contracting US economy is a bigger problem for us right now than the growing global
economy! Geekcorps was initially funded by generous individuals who'd made money
in the Internet industry. We'd planned on raising the majority of our funding from
individuals and corporations in the dot.com space. Our timing couldn't have been
much worse - many of the people who've wanted to help us have found themselves
overextended and in financial trouble. So we've had to quickly change our expectations
of what support we can garner from the dot.com community and what support is going to
come from governments and foundations.
What has been a pleasant surprise is discovering that the IT economy is truly a global
economy in terms of who has IT talent they're willing to bring to the table.
I'd initially thought of Geekcorps as a group that primarily sent US volunteers
overseas - we've very quickly discovered that our volunteers come from all over
the world, from Chile to Denmark. In our second volunteer tour, US volunteers
were outnumbered by volunteers from the rest of the world! I'm looking forward
to the day when the majority of Geekcorps volunteers come from emerging nations
that have developed such rich technology economies that IT professionals are
able to volunteer in other emerging nations with less developed IT sectors.
Livelyhood:
What are some of the major obstacles that you face on a daily basis with your organization.
Ethan:
One obvious obstacle is coordinating efforts around the world. Half of our staff is in
Ghana, half in North Adams, MA. We get to see each other face to face once or
twice a year. Phone calls are incredibly expensive. So we send a lot of email,
spend time chatting online and place an enormous amount of trust in one another.
Once we start working in multiple nations, one of the biggest challenges is going
to be making sure our teams in different countries can learn from one another.
Money's a perpetual obstacle for us, as it is for most nonprofits. We spend more
time than we'd like raising money, and less time working in the field. I'm not
sure there's a nonprofit in the world that doesn't consider this a major problem, though.
In some ways, the oddest obstacle comes from our visibility. We answer tons of email from
businesspeople around the world who'd like to host a Geekcorps volunteer. Most are
in countries where we're not working, so we spend time directing folks to other
resources that might be available to them. We also get requests for assistance with
digital divide projects around the world, and we do our best to share advice,
sometimes sending a couple of emails, sometimes becoming advisors to other projects.
It's my belief that our job is not just to expand the work that we're doing, but to
help other people get their projects off the ground. As the community of folks
working on international digital divide projects expands, I hope we'll see fewer
emails that start out, "You've got to help me - you're the only people working
in this field." We certainly aren't, but we're often the first folks people have
heard of, so we're the folks who field people's questions.
Livelyhood:
If you could do it all over again from the beginning would you? And, what would you do differently?
Ethan:
Absolutely, I'd do it again. And there's also no doubt that I'd do a few things differently.
We started Geekcorps at the peak of the Internet market bubble in the US. We really
thought that we'd find the majority of support for our efforts from net entrepreneurs
who shared the vision of ensuring that the World Wide Web was really worldwide.
This is one of those clever ideas that works poorly in a down market. So one
change I would have made would be to have looked for broader-based support
early on in the process of building the organization: foundations, multi-laterals,
governments as well as individuals and corporations.
Increasingly, I'm inspired by entrepreneurs who run nonprofit organizations that fund
themselves, or for-profit organizations that achieve social missions while turning a
profit. I don't know whether Geekcorps could have been a self-sustaining business
at the beginning, and I think we'll work on adding revenue streams to the business
now, but I wish we'd been able to build an organization less dependent on outside
funding. That's something we'll work on moving forward.
Geekcorps is a project that has grown far bigger than I ever really thought it would.
Our goals from the outset were to move fast and think globally. I think I was surprised
by how fast we actually were able to move, and that it's taken me a while to realize
that Geekcorps is a reality, not just a possibility. One of the big lessons I've
taken from this is that you can't allow yourself to be surprised by your own
success. When you try a crazy idea like Geekcorps, you need to believe
that it's going to happen and be ready when it does.
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