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Poll: The Experts Speak?

Authors Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf were on THE JOURNAL this week to discuss their new book, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! OR HOW WE WON THE WAR IN IRAQ. The latest from Cerf and Navasky’s satirical “Institute of Expertology,” which previously published THE EXPERTS SPEAK: THE DEFINITIVE COMPENDIUM OF AUTHORITATIVE MISINFORMATION, the book is an in-depth examination of five years of expert commentary on Iraq. Regarding experts, Navasky said:

“The format of journalism is that you quote someone on one side, and then you quote someone on the other, and you pick experts. And the theory [is] that if you get two people who, as we found out in THE EXPERTS SPEAK, are experts who are wrong, that somehow you’re gonna get the truth out of that.”

What do you think? We invite you to discuss in the space below.

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The blanant media outlets who are acting as Propaganda misistries are easy to recognize and avoid. by ignoring them we can effect their ratings thus effect their revenue by advertisers. 'Starve them Out'.
But what is more difficult are those who appear to be 'doing thier jobs' reporting stories which shed some light on the criminal acts being committed- but are actually only skimming the surface of the real issue.Case in point focusing on the overt crimes of this Admin since 9/11 - but failing to use their 'evidence' to show exactly what the underlying cause of 9/11 was- Unethical and Immoral business practices by Multinationals in coordination with the Oppressive Regimes in the Middle East for Decades.REv Wright is another Blanant diversion form the real 'Religions ' which constitute a Clear and Present Danger to Our naitonal and international Security.Rev Wright was a Red Herring. No matter what one thinks of his Thoughts (crazy, misguided or even Unamaericna) they were jsut that - thoughts. NO call to arms to rise Up agianst the Gov't in any other way then with your votes. He was Right about everything -for those who do not llow the media or politicians to be their 'memory bank'- AIDS was allowed to reach epidmeic proportions (inventing is not as Deadly and Spreading) and the MIC caused 9/11.
Who should be on every news cast, every pundit show, and on the Terrorist Watch list is such snake Oil dealers as Hagee & Parsley. Not just becasue they expound 'End of Days' , but because they have a PLAN to make it happen (so did Charlie Manson) and even more Frightening is the number and Rank of the Politicians who have aligned themselves with Both! 'Liberal ' Media will repeat Hagee's 'Catholic Whore' bu tdo not touch on his stratedgy for Armegeddon which begins with an Pre Emptive Strike on Iran. We have an Executive Branch hell bent on doing this and Candidates who are singing in their Choir!Nor do they discuss Hagee's contention that to be 'Raptured' one MUST covert to their Religion- including the entire Jewish community who they are Pretending to be the 'Champions 'of- Purley being Used as a means to an End. NOT one 'liberal' MSM has discussed these nafarious Connection to our Foreign policy. Not one has Demanding Hagee & Parsley be Rebuked, Refuted, Rejected by Any of our 'Public Servants' In Positions of Power.
We expect lopsided 'News' from FOX, but MSNBC. We are surprised the Naitonal Review has 'buried ' this Story, But the Huffington Post?Are their Traitors in our midst, camoflagued not only in Blue but under the guise of Untainted 'Liberal' media
I commend You Bill had i not found your expose on Hagee I too would still be Blind to this SERIOUS National/Politcal/Global Security Issue. I would not have made the connection with the Iran Saber Ratttling and the Theology which is Driving It. Now I am Terrified. AQ is th eleast of our concerns- we have domestic Enemies in our midst and in Control!

The illusion 'all comes down from above' is penetrated at last. Beautiful!

When it comes down to it, the sequence of events leading to the 2nd Iraq War, as well as assumed justification to distort the basic tents of our Constitution; as well as disavow the International recognition of "Rights for prisoners under the Geneva Convention." By simply changing their general status to "Enemy Combatant", this change of terminology can simply aborgate and suspend the basic Bill of Rights given to every person. The Bush Administration made everyone less than a person.

Now, in exigent matters, I wholeheartedly endorse using extraordinary means for extraordinary times; this should be a handful of individuals. However, when the basic tenet of the Interrogation Program is to abuse, humilate and shame, then--in the end--it is America who loses. Perhaps not at this moment, but the seeds planted by these actions will bear fruit for generations to come.

Shame on the media for allowing this to happen. I really do not blame the politicians for the last 5 years. No, I cast my anguish and anger at the media; who simply jumpoed on the band wagon and acquiesed without resveration; and with great enthusiasm. The Third Estate let America down.

GC Assad

I'm sorry that Bill Moyers didn't reference a great book that he was quoted in: "The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam" by Barbara Tuchman, 1984. The late, wonderful historian basically showed how sheer hubris and stupidity led to the fall of Troy, loss by Britain of the American colonies and Vietnam. If only she could write about this debacle.

Dear Bill,

Thank you so much for such insightful comment on Rev Right; we all could almost be fooled again by a media machine... Please keep up the great efforts!!!

America is a great country with great people; given time and good work she will shine again. First we need to find all the root causes that's killing our country, be it anyone, or any group.

Who is benefiting from the pain of the majority; who has hijacked our policy, foreign and domestic, our finances, our values...

Our real enemy is only a tiny few manipulating us right here living at the top and behind the scenes.

Good people have to unite and make them pay, dearly.

Think for ourselves!

Take care

Hi All,

A question Bill asked in this interview (Do experts learn from their mistakes?) was poorly answered by these experts. I don't fault these gentlemen, the answer to this question simply does not fall within their expertise. I suggest that your staff and my fellow viewers might welcome reading a useful new book on this topic. Mistakes were made (but not by me): why we justify foolish beliefs, bad decisions, and hurtful acts by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.

The book discusses the phenomenon of cognitive dissonance and clearly explains why all of us fall prey to the traps these so-called experts fall into. It is basically human nature. Read the book or have the authors on the show and let me know what you think.

All the best,

Paul

Read Next Post: The chickens are settling in: Please don't let the Buzzards come home to roost!

EXPERTS: What is the nature of Capitalism?
Before proceeding to the Capitol for lobbying this morning against the WINSEC (formerly, School of the Americas) which trains foreign militaries in torture and the undermining of democracy, I was listening to Morning Edition. Two stories stuck in my mind:
#1- Bankers BB&T want to give Marshall College one million (to start with) to study the works and philosophy of Ayn Rand, the purveyor of the most extreme ideology of selfish idealism. The bank wants to see an army of Greenspans graduate to promote their interests. How selfish! (Can a corporation have a self? Should it?)
#2-An unemployed woman recently contacted Countrywide (Now owned by Bank of America)for refinancing of her home. She was told by a broker to claim $50K in income for herself and to boost her manager husband's pay on the application. She expressed concern about dishonesty and he replied he could fix it. (Fixed rate?) After some questioning he informed her a fee of $10K would be required. The case is now under ineffectual investigation. Is this recalcitrance or just good selfish business?

So you see, an economic climate that is destroying our economy and our nation is eagerly propagated, and no one is acting to stop it. Only a mental patient could believe there is a mutually supporting relationship between capitalism and democracy.

Here on the Metro I've been thinking about why that is.
I recalled a lecture by Professor Cedric Robinson of UCSB about capitalism and the film industry. He said major films in America cannot be separated from capitalist ideology.In other words they are used in a selfish attempt to promote and defend a derogatory ideology. This parallels what Professor Ravi Batra teaches about the economics profession, that it serves wealth and betrays the majority.

If we look at the election for President:
#1 Capitalism uses ageism to manipulate the workforce and markets to advantage.
It manufactured the ridicule used against John McCain for his seniority.
#2 Capitalism uses sexuality and sexual orientation to derail rational behavior. Witness the accusations of Lesbianism against Hillary Clinton in the tabloids and on line. Capitalism manufactures sexual anxiety for social control.
#3 I need not go into detail about how capitalism has used racism. Capitalism enabled slavery to produce wealth from suffering and injustice. Discrimination is an artifact of the capitalist struggle against their workforce. Distrust of Obama's ability and sincerity results from this history.

So at a time when our nation is crumbling and disunited Capitalism is dividing us for profit, regardless of the consequences. Why teach greed or allow fraud to go unpunished in these times?
Someone stands to profit in the short run.

I believe my account shows capitalist ideology as maladaptive. Therefore, the institutions, such as banks, who use it as a weapon need to be reined in. What better way than to deny corporate personhood and free speech. Otherwise, the banks might have to open terror schools and Inquisitions to protect their greed and enforce an irrational mentality.

Mr. Moyers,

I enjoyed your interview with the "Expertologists." You made a good point about the so-called experts not being held accountable, and in the case of a lucky few like Mr. Kristol, getting promoted.

I'd like to point out that many outside the media expert oligopoly were correct about the Iraq War. Unfortunatley they were largely marginalized by the mainstream media, and remain so. Both Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky spoke out against the Iraq War before it started, and how many times did you see them on the cable news shows? They were largely excluded, and although they turned out to be correct, they remain so today. Even the supposedly "liberal" cable news shows like Keith Olbermann don't invite these guys on.

It was almost painful revisiting so many of the absurdities and lies both leading up to the war and after. As an antidote, I'd like to revisit one of Howard Zinn's articles from 2002:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0819-01.htm

Dr Mr. Moyers,

I just watched the repeat of your show sunday evening. You finished by saying a second carrier, the USS Lincoln was going to the Persian Gulf.

Sir, G Bush has only dispatched 2 carriers to the gulf once, just prior to the 15 British sailors being taken by the Iranians. I'm sure you remember the "Cornwall Incident".


A US Carrier presence in the Persian Gulf is utter folly from a military standpoint, Iran is quite capable of sinking any warship in the Gulf. In fact a carrier based attack on Iran is just plain stupid, Carriers stationed in the Arabian Sea, that makes more sense. What does not make sense is using acrriers in the first place, carrier planes are not capable of carrying the kind of ordinance required, whether conventional or nuclear.

The largest bunker buster a Carrier plane can carry is the GBU-28, @ 4400 pounds. The MOAB can only be dropped from a C-130, a land based plane. The rest of these “Busters” are too small, they can blow a crater about 20 to 30 feet deep in soil, not rock, not concrete. The B1, B2, B52, none can carry even a MOAB, let alone the new variants.

Carrier locations:
http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

Various links and citations:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=1973&page=1

CVN-75 Harry S. Truman is in the Persian Gulf as of the last week of April, may 5th it will be 6 months. The Lincoln is slated to relieve the Truman. US Carriers are deployed for 6 months.

According to Jim (not Belushi)
Cinquo de Mayo, 8:14am: Capitalism is depending upon perpetual war to keep the poker game afloat. While his history is a bit simplistic, his conclusion is a tight fit.
Jim, if you believe all of us near-retirees sit around listening to the Parrothead and Neil Young you should be gladly mistaken. What are your activist affiliations? If we don't assert "People Power" as beginning the change, what is Jim's recommendation? Grady would want me to remind you here that Bill Moyers has now remained a hostage 94 days to the commercial limitations of PBS/WNET. Daddy Bush's thousand black hole loci are beginning to converge. Derivatives are a larger market than all stock and commodities exchanges combined, redacted and unregulated. And did you ever think that if you were extremely wealthy you could borrow FED funds at 2% and use them to buy T-Bills (now available again in the 1 year denomination).The problem is most wealthy speculators are not satisfied with that but like to test the long odds, knowing we will be enslaved to bail them out.See how thet starve the masses!
Economic science is a fraud: 95% of economic doctorates are employed by speculators: Anyone with business math can figure it out and make credible predictions. Be an Expert!
Your laptop battery is on the way from Ebay, Grady.
Why not take the Metro down and see the new AmerIndian Museum? Elaine will still pick you up (Freightliner-flatbed) at the Greenbelt exit 9:15am on Mother's Day. I'll return from Santa Fe on the 16th. We'll move the Folk School into the bigger space then. Hold down the fort. beretco.op@gmail.com

P.S. Notice how well David Eddy's self-education is progressing.

In your montage regarding the alleged "imminent threat" - not one person in the Bush administration said the threat was imminent. Is this fact lost in all the vituperation here? When fact checked, you will find that the first person to call the threat from Saddam "imminent" was none other than Sen. Edwards.

Stuff that in your "expert" pipe!

It depends on your definition of the word "imminent". Why would you attack a country pre-emptively that wasn't an "imminent" threat? To get oil or make money are the only two reasons. I can assure you there was never a doubt that the Bush administration wasn't trying to make all of us believe there was a threat where none existed.

On the "Spinsanity" they say that Fleischer never used the term "imminent danger" himself and just because he twice affirmed an "imminent threat" when it was put in a question from reporters.

So I guess if you agree with statements you can't be held accountable for what the statement says.

According to "Spinsanity" the Bush administration declared the term "imminent treat" needed to be redefined in order for it to fit Iraq which is exactly what he did and continues to do. If he doesn't fit, you must redefine the term.

I don't think they would have succeeded in taking this country to war without an "imminent threat" suggestion.

How "imminent" is "imminent".

The tragedies of Vietnam and Iraq are still triumphs for American capitalism since that is what they are all about. Just as Bush Sr declared the New World Order in 1989, we know that order is big banks and mega-corporations. Afterall Blair stood side by side with GW during Iraq; Great Britain the nation that invented capitalism and advanced it in the 19th century along with the USA that advanced it globally in the 20th century.

The liberals simply lament the days of the 60's when they could use the media to protest gov't policies. Like the Jimmy Buffett song they can just sit and watch:

"Yeah, but now I'm gettin' old, don't wear underwear
I don't go to church and I don't cut my hair
But I can go to movies and see it all there
Just the way that it used to be"

On May 2 Bill closed his show with:

CBS NEWS and the WASHINGTON POST have both reported recently that the Pentagon is drawing up options for military strikes against Iran. The Secretary of Defense says that's not so. But Washington has moved a second carrier into the Persian Gulf — the USS Lincoln, the very same ship on whose deck President Bush landed five years ago yesterday to announce the end of major combat operations in Iraq.

The USS Lincoln entered the Persian Gulf on April 30th and the USS Truman (first carrier) left the gulf on May 1 and is heading home. Unless he can come up with the name of a third carrier that’s steaming around the gulf, Bill’s closing is nonsense. The closing does have a nice punch to it though despite the facts. The White House probably thought Mission Accomplished had a punch to it at the time.

Here's the only thing i can add to this...and keep in mind this isn't even the 'brains' behind the greedy mess...this is only the imbecile that had his brother to help steal the election from someone competent...The worst part is that the US citizens stood for it...It's shameful, really.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

Robert;
The reason you hear chickens clucking is because you are one of the chickens in the chicken house. It takes courage to speak the truth and do what is right instead of what is convenient. Any idiot can wave the flag and go along with undermining the foundations of this nation.

vote with your dollars...
support independent media:


http://www.therealnews.com/


no government funding
no corporate funding
no advertising

* I'm am not affiliated with The Real News, just a supporter.

When referring to the "Mission Accomplished" incident, it is ESSENTIAL to point out that it was a wholly staged photo shoot 30 miles off the San Diego coast.
It is also worth noting that in addition to being a bully and a liar Bush is (technically, under the UCMJ) a deserter in time of war.

Dr Mr. Moyers,

I just watched the repeat of your show sunday evening. You finished by saying a second carrier, the USS Lincoln was going to the Persian Gulf.

Sir, G Bush has only dispatched 2 carriers to the gulf once, just prior to the 15 British sailors being taken by the Iranians. I'm sure you remember the "Cornwall Incident".


A US Carrier presence in the Persian Gulf is utter folly from a military standpoint, Iran is quite capable of sinking any warship in the Gulf. In fact a carrier based attack on Iran is just plain stupid, Carriers stationed in the Arabian Sea, that makes more sense. What does not make sense is using acrriers in the first place, carrier planes are not capable of carrying the kind of ordinance required, whether conventional or nuclear.

The largest bunker buster a Carrier plane can carry is the GBU-28, @ 4400 pounds. The MOAB can only be dropped from a C-130, a land based plane. The rest of these “Busters” are too small, they can blow a crater about 20 to 30 feet deep in soil, not rock, not concrete. The B1, B2, B52, none can carry even a MOAB, let alone the new variants.

Carrier locations:
http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

Various links and citations:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=1973&page=1

CVN-75 Harry S. Truman is in the Persian Gulf as of the last week of April, may 5th it will be 6 months. The Lincoln is slated to relieve the Truman. US Carriers are deployed for 6 months.

I hear the chickens clucking

Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf were wonderful and informative speakers. I think pres. Bush is simply a liar, conscious and approved by the dominant class.

I just finished watching your interview with Reverend Wright and feel the need to respond. Though I am neither Black, nor Christian, I was moved by his thoughtful and articulate discussion of the tricky intersection of spirituality and politics. I found the clips of his sermons to be surprisingly inspiring and relevant to my outrage and despair about US policy, both foreign and domestic. I imagine that having Obama turn against him so publicly must be a very painful addition to an already frustrating situation as he finds his work misrepresented in the corporate media. I just want him to know that someone was touched by his words. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for providing a forum for people to fully develop their thoughts and positions. You do a great service to our country by promoting reasoned public discussion.

I would say that this is the age of incompetence.
Reality and truth are no longer relative. Education is no longer consistent with the requirements for understanding reality or truth. What is worse is that we can no longer understand each other.
Disinformation has taken its toll and common sense is no longer common. The foundation of civilization is crumbling and top heavy economics is destroying the quality of life. There is still the faint light of hope that people will get a glimpse of the value of life and do what is necessary to sure up our institutions. It will be necessary that we understand what is truth and what is real and use that information to repair the present and secure the future. The voice of the people must be heard and the courage to write the truth must be reborn.

What intrigues me is that no mention was made of the fitting metaphor for the Bush presidency of the landing on the carrier of a jet capable of flying at speeds near 600 mph (450 knots) only 30 miles from shore and the effort to conceal that fact from the viewing public.

So much of this presidency has consisted of deliberate efforts to conceal, distort and mask facts from the rewriting of global warming literature to the selling of No Child Left Behind by Armstrong Williams to the misrepresentation of the facts leading up to the rewrite of Medicare / Medicaid legislation to the
attaboys given to George Tenet and Katrina "Brownie"
to the failed and misguided "Faith Based Charities" of which the lion's share of the funding was given to Christian charities overwhelmingly while they doth protest too much about whether they have to
abide by federal regulations (read "strings attached) or have to share it with organizations whose faith they happen to disagree with, which, by the way, what exactly would be the definition of "faith" anyways?

In addition, we learned that "deficits don't matter anymore" and that
the Vice President is a branch of government all its own.

Given what we have been subjected to under the presidency of George W. Bush, I would think the whole "Mission accomplished" fiasco is a fitting memorial.

RIP

Thank you once again Bill Moyers for bringing more light to the unjustified IRAQ WAR. For bringing more light by inviting Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf to speak about their book MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

I have to agree with Andrew Brewer's comments on this blog- "Actually the Mission really has been Accomplished. Boardrooms across country/world are celebrating the extraction of our tax dollars into their bank accounts. A "Mission Accomplished" banner should be hanging in front of every gas station in the country, as well as at the headquarters of all the weapons dealers, engineering and construction firms, private military bandits, etc. who've profited from this fiasco".

In my opinion, Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf are making a point that goes further than the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED of George Bush, Cheney & Co. and it is the profitability of this war and how well the government has planned it and used 9/11 as an excuse. And as Bill Moyers said in the essay about Jeremiah Wright, "actions have consequences"...9/11 might had been a consequence of previous actions in our part for getting our noses where they do not belong, or as many of us think, 9/11 might had been planned by ours Bush & Cheney team and their fellow mates in the military industry.

The MISSION ACCOMPLISHED is yet to be accomplished by Bush, Cheney & Co. as Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf suggest in the bonus section of this book where they say that Bush says "that it is ridiculous that we are going to attack Iran". Iran had been in the plans as far as Iraq was. Iran as well as Iraq had been a target for many many years now.

At the end of the interview with Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf they say that they have a lot of work to do about finding info about this supposed attack to Iran, and they talk about the one carrier off the coast of Iran. Also, Bill Moyers at the end talks about Washington just moved a second aircraft carrier, the USS Lincoln into the Persian Gulf. Additionally, I heard Pat Buchanan in "The Maclaughing Group" show predicting that U.S. will be in war with Iran by September of this year. By putting all these comments and findings together, it is most likely that we will be in war with Iran soon. BUT THIS WILL BE THE LAST WAR U.S. WILL EVER FIGHT. This could very well trigger a 3rd World War because the opposition of many countries about U.S. declaring a preempty war against another country and killing innocent people along the way; or the world countries will confirm the imperialistic intentions of U.S. and might let U.S. write their own fate on their own final chapter as the last IMPERIALIST EMPIRE to succumb in this planet; and we won't be able to sustain another war, physically & emotionally (the military as well as the country), and definetely in economic terms (it will finish us as a capitalist country and as a country).

U.S. has not learned the lessons of hundreds and hundreds of years of world history and how all the once in top of the world empires have succumbed because their own unrestricted imperialist and capitalist ideals. We won't be an exception, especially if we attack Iran or any other country. Iran will be the last country we attack. Fighting Iran will be the drop that overflow the already full glass of water.

Bill Moyers quoted this in the essay he wrote about Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf show-
"[I]t seems pretty clear that no civilized people will ever again permit its government to enter into a competitives armament race."
-Nicholas Murray Butler, president of Columbia University, October 17, 1914

Unfortunately, we did already. Eight years ago when we let this government take over we gave them power and we have given them more and more power over the years and allowed them to take us through a dangerous road and we have reached the point of no return.

Good luck to Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf in their quest for finding the truth and with hopes of stopping another senseless war with imperialistic roots that will culminate with the U.S. as a country. I hope they really do find it out and that we are capable of believing in them as many other people have spoken the truth in the last 8 years, otherwise, our actions will bring great consequences as Bill Moyers say.

Thank you all.

In your montage regarding the alleged "imminent threat" - not one person in the Bush administration said the threat was imminent. Is this fact lost in all the vituperation here? When fact checked, you will find that the first person to call the threat from Saddam "imminent" was none other than Sen. Edwards.

Stuff that in your "expert" pipe!

Appreciated many of the food-for-thought comments above. I, too, greatly admire the voice and courage of Bill Moyers. "Bill Moyers Journal" is a must-watch in our home. His conversations are part of our continuing education, and we missed Moyers when he was off the air. In a former interview w. Moyers, Ms. Jamieson recommended that after a debate, viewers should turn off the TV and think about their own reactions to the debate and make up their own minds about what they heard. I think she's right. My husband and I, have been following her advice and talking to each other about our reactions. At the same time, there are some commentators whose perspectives we listen to - Mark Shields, David Brooks, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Michael Bechloss, David Gergen and many of the guests on Charlie Rose, Tavis Smiley, and The Jim Lehrer News Hour.) Thank goodness for PBS! While I listen to many knowledgeable guests, pundits and supposed experts, I do pay attention to my gut instincts. During the build up to the Iraq war, I did not fall prey to the fear-mongering tactics and repetitious comments of key figures in the Bush administration & of several neo-cons who made frequent appearances on television. I deeply resent those who have never served in the military and/or do not have children who are serving in the military, who arrogantly & misguidedly instigate wars. Still feel curious about why the media hasn't followed-up on the anthrax attacks. Hope there will be a full 'follow the money' report and that those who profited will be brought to justice. Think we need to keep a watchful eye on outfits like Haliburton & Blackwater. What has happened to checks and balances? Still do not trust this administration and worry about further damage they could do. Resent their opposition to public protest of the war in Iraq and the way they artificially staged events. Resent the immoral pre-emptive strike and the recycling of our military troops & National Guard. I do believe in the "Audacity of Hope", and I am supporting Senator Barak Obama. Appreciate that he did not support the war in Iraq. Appreciate his grassroots, bottom-up campaign which shows respect for average citizens and challenges us to participate. He is a uniter, and we certainly need a 'real' uniter. I would like to know, who put together those out-of-context snippets of Rev. Wright's sermons and distributed them to the media. This is clearly a distraction to undermine Obama's campaign. Although I do not agree with everything he said, I respect Rev. Wright's accomplishments during his ministry and his service to our country. After the events of the past week, I appreciated Moyer's forceful follow-up comments. It has been painful to watch Rev. Wright and Barack Obama suffering through this ordeal. I have attended many services in African American churches. The dramatic sermons, soulful singing, wonderful music, and the affirmation that members of the congregation give to guest speakers and their pastor are all uplifting. My dear friend, Verna, said, "For so many generations, all we had was our church." In our home, during these troubled times, we will stay tuned to the "Bill Moyers Journal", as we admire Moyers' integrity, wisdom, and social consciousness. He fearlessly continues to take-on the toughest issues. Keep on, takin''em on, Bill!

Mr Moyers:
Thank you for your comments about Reverend Wright. They were like a breath of fresh air. Regarding his speech at the NAACP:

From the time we are born, many of us get the message that we aren’t quite good enough, that we don’t really measure up to expectations. From non-verbal parental responses about dirty diapers, cries for attention, erratic sleep habits etc, to innumerable, overt, displeased responses from parents, teachers, employers, co-workers, family members and even "friends," we develop a mind set that we are deficient in some way, that others are superior. This leads to an unconscious practice of judging ourselves in comparison to others and judging others in comparison to ourselves. It limits our ability to accept and reverence ourselves and others as we are and not some cultural ideal of what we think we should be.
Reverend Wright's lesson is the gateway to achieving reconciliation in a variety of spheres, beyond race. First, it is a way to reconcile with ourselves. After a lifetime, I have experienced a new level of appreciation for others and for myself.

Actually the Mission really has been Accomplished. Boardrooms across country/world are celebrating the extraction of our tax dollars into their bank accounts. A "Mission Accomplished" banner should be hanging in front of every gas station in the country, as well as at the headquarters of all the weapons dealers, engineering and construction firms, private military bandits, etc. who've profited from this fiasco.

And yes Bill, it does seem odd that the folks who screw up the most are the ones most likely to get promoted. An honest assessment of why that is deserves a series of its own. I think a perfect guest to explain this to us would be one of the guys who has actually gotten most everything right about U.S. policy since the 1960s, Noam Chomsky. It seems that if you get it right consistently--like Chomsky has, your fate is to be banished from mainstream media--even PBS. Thank goodness for Free Speech TV (Democracy Now, etc.). Chomsky on PBS... now that really would be Mission Accomplished for those of us intent on actually learning anything.

I went to sleep laughing and woke up laughing at the sly, wry experts of "Expertology". What I wouldn't give to be a fly on their wall, except I'd probably fall over buzzing with laughter and give myself away...

I don't believe Cheney was "prescient" at all but the deliberate mastermind behind all that's gone wrong with our government's Iraq and energy policies, to his and his corporate cronies' great financial benefit.

Special thanks to Mr. Moyers and Mr. Navasky for their lifelong dedication to those principles we now call progressive.

While "experts" proliferate, in times of war, with greater frequency than ants, only those with imagination, and vision can help foster an intellectual climate that is open to continual self-discovery.

Those of us who value openness over secrecy, accountability over obfuscation, uncovering the news rather than cover-ups, courage over cowering, will be grateful for the contributions of these two architects of political conscience, Bill Moyers and Victor Navasky, for generations to come.

JEREMIAH WRIGHT SECULAR TRUTH OR GOD’S TRUTH?

Greetings Brethren,

Peace be unto you. Mr. Moyers this is a brilliant assessment of the situation with Minister Wright. Especially coming from a White journalist. However we must admit with all the irresponsible journalist Black and White it is unlikely to get anyone in the national media from the Black community to make an analysis of this situation more in-depth and on target than what you have done.

However since Minister Wright (No preacher is to be shown are given the title of Rev. as this belongs to God) is such a brilliant man why want he teach the Truth of the Bible. Minister Wright notes he has to answer to God. Then stop lying on God regarding your responsibility to speak up about the sins in the church. It is for certain that believers should realize that all things are made smooth with Jesus.

Therefore the sins of American Imperialism, etc. are conquered by accepting Jesus Christ. Therefore Preachers have enough to preach about regarding the sins and crimes committed in the church and the on-going lies told about giving (Tithes & Offerings) etc. So who are the hypocrites here?

I heard Albert Einstein say: “Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of Truth.” However as you know Einstein had denounced Judaism and all organized forms of religion. But Minister Wright is an alleged Christian. Thus he is are should be well aware of the Supreme Authority of God. In this case this Authority is Truth. But you are not loyal and obedient to this authority when you lie on God.

Peace and Love, Carl A. Patton writing for the FreedomJournal 3 May 2008 in the year of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

www.psychezpublishing.com

Dear Bill -
thanks for a thoughtful recap on the Wright interview, like many of us I found him to be a thoroughly admirable man, and as Joan pointed out this spectacle serves to point out the shallowness of the media. It's a real shame that Obama couldn't find the means or the courage to bring the issues Rev. Wright addresses to the political forum in a substantive way. The immorality of racism in America is part and parcel of the same devaluation of human life for profit that brought us the Vietnam war and Iraq. Your expertologists talked about the public's short memory but negelected to remind us that many of the same experts were the architects of both conflicts. In particular, Cheney's now famous 1994 interview in which he calmly delineates the reasons not to stay in Iraq can only be reconciled with his later turnaround by realizing that he knew invasion was wrong and went ahead and did it anyway, telling a passel of lies to sell it to Congress and the American public. Why? Because his company, Halliburton, the oil cartel and all of the other reigning members of the military-industrial complex stood to make BILLIONS - war is good for business, if bad for the countries and people involved. Iraqi civilians? Our troops? The US taxpayers? Screw em, they're expendable, as long as we can help the rich get richer. God Damn these evil leaders who're passing themselves off as the real America, to our unending shame.

Dear Mr Moyers and Viewers,

How many of you out there with long term memory can think back to the media's "Yeah-Rah-Rah" coverage when the war started?

Remember all the flag waving banners that would wave on the screen and the songs that were played whenever news about the Iraq War - on any network - was about to be announced?

Excuse me ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and FOX - but whatever happened to your "Yeah-Rah-Rah" War Reporting, Songs and Banners?

Did it stop when things stopped going as planned and you realized you had been suckered?

Just wondering.

Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf thank you! Keep up the great work!

Bill I have loved your view point on most things and have admired you for years but on this issuer or the Rev. Wright you have turned me off big time.
I do not agree with you take on this situation. Wright is WRONG on the issues and he fosters hate and racism when WE are trying to heal the wounds and sins of the past.
Wright, in my view is an ego maniac and has no love or respect to the white people who risk their lives for his Freedom to be an @ss.
Sorry, I will NOT vote for his long time FRIEND.
You are dead wrong on this issue and I can't believe what I an hearing from you.

Dear Mr. Moyers:
In reference to the Rev. Wright situation and the negative pouncing from the media, you’re mentioning MNSBC, and other media on your program was so vital to our National Morality.
From the moment I heard your interviews with Joseph Campbell, which has influenced my life greatly; I follow your programs and am truly grateful you are a voice for many and me.
You in so many words and programs express the importance of “Virtue”, which grounds the human in moral behavior. I am not a researcher or scholar, but know the great philosopher, leaders, journalists, politicians and theologians who are humanitarian go to “virtue” a source for guidance. Jesus embraced all of mankind, which defines him as great of all humanitarian. Jesus, so often misunderstood, was the greatest model a virtuous life.
Not to equate suffering with virtue, but to point out how the human needs to destroy the good in nature. To point out how we need to “take down what is good”?
Mr. Moyers, why? What is this “destroyer factor” in the human that “good” cannot rise?
Mary Ann Greco

Everybody remember what Dana Perino(4.30.08 White House Briefing) said, "Mission Accomplished" didn´t mean "Mission Accomplish." Go to Goggle video and see and hear for yourself what this means years after when Bush said it.

WARS? WHAT WARS? Hollywood drunk actress cases are more important to today's news corpSE (dead form the neck up)

Media Coverage of the Middle East Oil War(s) is non-existent.

Note that war(s) is plural as in two wars, since we still have troops in AFGHANISTAN, which goes UNreported as if the troops are all home.

You know Afghanistan, don't you? Its that place where "Osama been Forgotten" is training his next group of terrorists thugs to attack us - again!!

These "so-called war experts" the MSM put on their talking head shows, are always pro-war and pathetic! Has even one of these "expert" clowns gotten anything right yet or sent somebody from their family into battle? I'm still waiting!

It is going to take the media having to send someone from their family over there - for multiple tours of duty (stop loss) and fighting the wrong enemy, for them to see what it is like and what war does to a family.

Bill, aren't you going to become one of those reporters that will be replaced for not towing the experts line? Another thing, your show being televised, while the majority of Americans are either customarily dining out on Friday night or watching a mindless HBO thriller, helps these so-called experts to validate their false propaganda. Your show should be broadcast following the 'Newshour' or during primetime.

I think that the focus on experts' lack of prescience, satirical and otherwise, is part of a circular argument about the war. The debate has been and continues to be about who "got it right." we compare people who said that would be a cakewalk to those who said it was a quagmire in the making. We are asked to judge the war on the basis of whether it was militarily successful and which experts "got it right."

In a broader sense, General Sherman got it right. War IS hell. That's why loosing it on another people can never be done as lightly as our government did in this case, no matter what their experts said.

Hello...I remember when this whole war thing started, I said to my wife, "Oh, no...not again!" Look at the hole we dug ourselves in. Why didn´t Chaney listen to himself and take his own advice and counselled the president´s staff what will happen when the U.S. gets bogged-down in Iraq.

david peri

We are the experts. We were in the streets before the invasion. We are still the experts and we are still in the streets.
And we do remember. Don’t turn it on, all those experts on the Jim Liars News Hour, PBS.

Dear Mr. Moyers,

I was so touched by your comments at the beginning of tonight's show. If virtual hugs matter, I'm sending you one. You never fail to make me think. Thank you for that and God bless!

Regarding Gandhi's wisdom on truth and error: Unfortunately, error shapes, i.e., BECOMES reality precisely because nobody (or nearly no one) sees the truth. Hence, we've become saddled with a paradox that paralyzes our society: the error is now our new truth.
Mr Moyers is the brilliant exception. His reflection on the complex motivation of Reverend Wright's recent behavior bespoke a heart-wrenching effort on his part (Moyers') to mine deeper into the labyrinthine logic that can lead us to the greater, more enduring, and ultimately liberating truth.

Mr. Moyers, namaste.

All of the experts were wrong about Iraq, as they were about Vietnam, and no one listened to the millions of Americans who marched in protest to both wars from the very beginning. My bumper sticker read "No attack on Iraq." Why doesn't Congress, the Media, the Pentagon, the President--why doesn't anyone ever listen to the real experts--The American People?

Bill, in your editorial at the beginning, I think you missed a few important points. I am including some of them here:

Who Needs the Context?
By Harry Willson

The American public is allowing the media to make its points through the use of magic words and phrases. It brings to mind the old game of quoting Bible verses, out of context, to make a new point. Here's my favorite example:

"Judas went out and hanged himself."

"Go and do thou likewise."

"What thou doest do quickly."

The Bible doesn't really say that. All three verses do indeed appear in the Bible, in three different contexts, but they don't mean what the person quoting them is pretending.

The media is doing the same thing with old sermons from Barak Obama's pastor. In a somewhat lengthy context the pastor is talking about the idea of God as a God of justice. Slavery and lynching and segregation are offensive to that God, the pastor tells his black congregation. It doesn't matter if white folks sing, "God Bless America." The God of Justice is inclined the other way, the pastor reminds his congregation. In his lathered-up excitement the pastor cries out, "God bless America? No! God damn America!" He doesn't mean that God hates all of white America. He is mocking those who think that a God of justice would approve of slavery, lynching, segregation and unprovoked invasions of other countries, which America has done a lot of in the last half-century.

But out of context, "God damn America" sounds quite dreadful to many Americans, especially those who don't know much recent history and can't see things from the non-Americans' point of view. So the media attacks the pastor as un-American, and even blames Obama for not shutting up his pastor, as if he could.

I recall my own last days as a pastor, not in a black church, but in an integrated [chicano, native American, white] church, in the mid-1960s. I stated, "Americans had better be hoping thaat there is no just God. If there is a just God, America is in trouble." I was concerned then about the assassinations of world leaders like Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran and Patrice Lamumba of the Congo, and the unprovoked bombing and invasion of Viet Nam. Since then I have ceased believing in any supernatural Entity at all. But I still try to believe in some kind of Undeviating Justice, and I can understand perfectly well Barak Obama's pastor, and his frustration.

Who needs the context? Some of the current problem is rooted in the refusal of most Americans to admit what the context is. Some observers have suggested that thoughtful residents of the Middle East, and other parts of the world, too, for that matter, hate America because of what America has done to them over the past fifty years. The suggestion infuriates some people. "Why do you hate America so?" they ask. They shout down the suggestion with words like "unpatriotic" and "pro-terrorist."

But we don't hate America. We do tremble for our country when we think of any kind of over-arching Justice. We're not surprised that the current administration has pulled out of the World Court. And then more magic words come up. They call us "defeatists" and say we are advocating "surrender." I don't think we should surrender. I think we should apologize, admit the war was and is a miserable mistake, stop it, stop the occupation, and make complete reparations for the damage done.

In order to think clearly about all this, we do need the context.
AND:

Rev. Wright: ridiculed for telling the truth
Racist ruling class decides whether a candidate is ‘electable’

By Eugene Puryear

Rev_Wright

One of the features of Senator Barack Obama’s campaign that has attracted widespread
enthusiasm is the implicit hopeful message that he personifies a new era of
reconciliation and unity between Black and white people. But he has decidedly avoided the
history and substance of Black national oppression. This dialogue—the real path to
unity—would in itself indict the ruling establishment when articulated in full. Obama’s
scripted message, on the other hand, in no way offends the racist corporate media and the
ruling class that stands behind it.

To be deemed “electable,” Obama must convince this ruling class that he will support
their interests, and he must show himself unsusceptible to the anti-imperialist voices of
the Black community.

Jeremiah Wright has now become a spokesperson for such voices and he has been the target
of relentless vilification and ridicule in the capitalist-owned media. His presentation
at the National Press Club in particular represented a stinging indictment of the ruling
class for its role in slavery, Jim Crow racism and of imperialism. He identified himself
with a theological tradition that represented the viewpoint of those “whose lives were
ground under, mangled and destroyed by the ruling classes.”

Wright also spoke out about September 11th, Iraq, Palestine, and the overall agenda of
U.S. foreign policy. He defended his prior claim that U.S. imperialism abroad, which has
always included ample use of terror, laid the basis for the September 11th attacks. When
questioned about his patriotism, Wright noted he had served six years in the armed
forces, and asked, “How many years did [Vice President Dick] Cheney serve?”

He continued, “My goddaughter’s unit just arrived in Iraq this week, while those who call
me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service, while
sending over 4,000 American boys and girls of every race to die over a lie.”

His comments on these issues would be right at home in an anti-war demonstration or
teach-in. As such, it was a speech that under normal circumstances the corporate media
would never play. While criticisms of the tactics of the Iraq war have become fashionable
in the corporate media, they consider such vibrant anti-imperialism to be practically
illegal on their airwaves.

But because of the controversy revolving around Wright, this time they broadcast it in
full to millions of viewers. Wright’s presentation was charismatic and persuasive. It
could not be in the least characterized as “anti-white.” In fact, Wright would strike
many as a voice of moderation. Wright proclaimed that the “Black church’s role in the
fight for equality and justice, from the 1700s up until 2008, has always had as its core
the nonnegotiable doctrine of reconciliation.” Wright continued, “Reconciliation does not
mean that blacks become whites or whites become blacks.” He emphasized that in liberation
theology, “We root out any teaching of superiority, inferiority, hatred, or prejudice.”
“Only then,” Wright concluded his speech, “will liberation, transformation, and
reconciliation become realities and cease being ever elusive ideals.”

Wright’s presentation alone may have altered the consciousness of many viewers, including
many white viewers, about the meaning of Black self-determination. His message, far from
being “divisive,” described a unity far more profound than that prescribed by the
politicians.

The corporate media springs into action

The corporate media—whether liberal or conservative—could not let this stand. Instead of
dealing with the substance of Wright’s presentation, they again reduced it to sound bite
snippets. This was not just a case of bad journalism. They had to conceal the nature of
his presentation because he was indicting them.

Wright has been viciously attacked on two accounts. One, he has refused to condemn Louis
Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam. Wright made clear, "Louis Farrakhan is not
my enemy. He did not put me in chains. He did not put me in slavery." Secondly,
citing the record of medical mistreatment of the Black community, Wright defended his
assertion that HIV/AIDS could possibly have been a creation of the U.S. government.
“Based on this Tuskegee experiment… I believe our government is capable of doing
anything.” Tuskegee was a “scientific experiment," in which the government left
African American men infected with syphilis to die.

The ruling establishment has focused on these perfectly justifiable positions as a way to
demonize Wright personally, and obscure his overall political message.

In wall-to-wall media coverage, we hear that the message of Rev. Wright has jeopardized
the future of Obama’s campaign because it is unpalatable to white working-class voters.
The same corporate media that never countenances the language of “working class”—before
there was only one big happy America—have now become experts in class politics. The
carefully primped talking heads on Fox News and CNN have suddenly become the spokespeople
for the blue-collar white worker.

But the corporate media has left out the most important fact: it is they who decide what
is palatable. Wright has not come under attack because his message is unacceptable to
white workers. Wright’s crime was that he put out a message unacceptable to the white
racist bourgeoisie. There are no white workers scripting the text for Anderson Cooper or
Sean Hannity. The multinational working class—Black, Latino, Arab, Asian and white—has
nothing to do with it. The working class, regardless of nationality, is a subject class,
subjected to the media that molds public opinion. It is this ruling class that formulated
Obama’s “electability” crisis.

The pro-establishment pundits pose everything in terms of white and Black. This may on
its face seem valid because racism is still the dominant reality in the United States.
But in the context of the unremitting attacks on Wright it obscures their class hatred of
Wright’s vision—a vision of a multinational social justice movement. And it is not just
the pundits talking. The New York Times, the most important anchor of the capitalist
class media, could not be more vicious. They instantly applauded Obama for rejecting the
“racism and paranoia of his former pastor.” All reality has been turned upside down. Rev.
Wright and those who protest slavery, racism and imperialism are labeled as “insane” and
“racist” by the system that has accumulated its wealth through slavery, racism and
imperialism.

The attacks on Rev. Wright have also been pumped up by Hillary Clinton and her chief
campaigner, former president Bill Clinton. Appearing on Bill O'Reilly's show of Fox News,
Clinton stumped for right-wing and racist votes. She declared that she was "offended
and outraged" by Wright. She was not outraged when the Clinton White House
eliminated 7 million children from welfare benefits in 1996, dropped 23,000 bombs on
Yugoslavia in 1999 or took the lives of 5,000 Iraqi babies every month as a consequence
of the severe economic sanctions that deprived Iraqis of food and medicine. Nothing to be
offended about there.

Obama’s dilemma

The new furor surrounding Wright has created a dilemma for Obama. Since the press
conference, Wright has been called every name in the book. Obama himself joined in,
angrily calling Wright “disrespectful” in a speech that amounted to a full break with his
former pastor.

This is yet another example of what Wright meant when he explained that Obama “says what
he has to say to get elected.” But Obama was not forced to denounce Wright to remain
acceptable to white voters. He denounced Wright to remain acceptable to the capitalist
class; this is an essential precondition for any candidate who wants to get elected.

Nonetheless, Obama’s forceful denunciation of Jeremiah Wright amounts to a denunciation
of a large section of African Americans. His accusation that Wright was “self-centered”
by speaking the truth publicly, means that it is selfish for African Americans to make
demands of Obama that hurt him with the racist ruling class and racist white voters.
According to this logic, we should just be happy he is running. A recent Los Angeles Wave
article revealed that Obama has given virtually no interviews or advertising dollars to
Black publishers. This is yet another sign that he takes the Black vote entirely for
granted.

In his highly publicized March 18 speech, Obama had said he “could no more disown
Reverend Wright than [he] could disown the entire black community.” A month later he has
effectively disowned Wright, and the Black community is left to wonder where—or if—it
stands inside the Obama campaign. While the first denunciation of Wright could be
explained away as political posturing, the second will not be so easily forgiven.

Obama’s appeal up until now has been based on the historical symbolism and promise of
being the first Black president as well as his inspirational but vague program for
“change.” Obama’s rank-and-file supporters are yearning for change. They are fed up with
the war, racism and injustice. But his program has been carefully crafted to satisfy the
needs and interests of US corporate capitalism. He has insisted that if he is elected he
will adopt a foreign policy similar to that of George H.W. Bush. He praises Bush senior
for his handling of the 1991 Iraq war. Over 100,000 Iraqis were killed while US
casualties were under two hundred in that high tech massacre. Bush senior’s assault on
Iraq came 13 months after he ordered the invasion of Panama in 1989.

On the current Iraq war, Obama has committed to leaving some unspecified number of troops
in the country. He has refused to commit to getting troops out by the end of his first
term. He supports “over-the-horizon” forces, which will position tens of thousands of
U.S. soldiers in strategic locations to project U.S. dominance against the peoples of the
Middle East. He promises to work to end the “mentality that took us to war.” But it was
the Pentagon war machine—not a mentality—that took us to war, and that war machine he
intends to leave in place. If that is not enough, Obama recently pledged to support Gen.
David Petraeus, chief architect of the Bush strategy in Iraq.

Obama has offered full-throated support for Israel, and pledged to continue to send
billions of dollars in money and arms there every year. He supports the war in
Afghanistan, and has proposed waging war against both Iran and Pakistan. He makes a great
deal of his willingness to meet with enemy leaders, but on Cuba, for instance, he refuses
to enter into unconditional negotiations. His condition: that the Cuban revolution be
dismantled and overthrown.

Rev. Wright should keep saying what he is saying. He’s speaking for millions of people in
this country who oppose the policies of imperialism. His intervention has again exposed
the character of the mainstream media, and it gives us a chance to engage with larger
numbers of people on the issues of racism and national oppression. On all the key points,
Rev. Wright is right, and he deserves the support of all progressive and revolutionary
people.

Whether the response to the Rev. Mr. Wright emerges essentially from racism might be true. Still, that seems beside the point. Senator Clinton simply has better experience, maturity, and insight than Senator Obama, who still seems glib and lightweight like his pastor.

If the Democratic Party wants my vote this fall, they need to give me Senator Clinton. Otherwise, Saint Ralph gets my vote again.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments at the beginning of your show about Jeremiah Wright. I totally agree with you and wish that the rest of the country would take the time to better understand Reverend Wright and where he is coming from. Thank you for a wonderful program.

I hope everyone would recall how WWI and WWII began and realize that Iran and Russia have a mutual defence treaty and if the US goes to war against Iran then Russia will go to war with the US. The Russian Bear is reawakening. I was once in SAC in the Air Force so this is all happening all over again.

Bill,

A good and revealing segment on the "experts". I would just like to say one thing: In the context of your discussion, I believe your guests have confused the term "experts" with the more accurate term "propagandists". Maybe "party line" or "administration propagandists" is more like it.

I found this segment very offensive. How are we to know what's going on in the world without experts? If I want to know whether or not many Americans in the Midwest are bitter, I don't trust somebody from Kansas giving their uninformed opinion - I want to know what our experts in New York and Washington say, because they know.

Next week, Mr. Moyers, please have some experts instead.

This was such a great segment. It was delicious listening to these funny, brilliant men but with such an important message. I also feel so much smarter after I watch this program.

Thank you Bill Moyers for the best hour in television. By the way, I adore Ms. Jamieson. She seems to put everything in such profound perspective.

The country of Iraq has been destroyed

The Ice Caps are melting off the planet

China is about to buy our stock market

...but I just got a great rate on my mortgage!!

did....someone just....quote.....waLt keLLy....?

Pencil Thin Mustache
By: Jimmy Buffett
1974
Now they make new movies in old black and white
With happy endings, where nobody fights
So if you find yourself in that nostalgic rage
Honey, jump right up and show your age

Chorus:
I wish I had a pencil thin mustache
The "Boston Blackie" kind
A two toned Ricky Ricardo jacket
And an autographed picture of Andy Devine

I remember bein' buck-toothed and skinny
Writin' fan letters to "Sky King" and Penny
Oh I wish I had a pencil thin mustache
Then I could solve some mysteries too

Then it's Bandstand, Disneyland, growin' up fast
Drinkin' on a fake I.D.
Yeah, and Rama of the jungle was everyone's Bawana
But only jazz musicians were smokin' marijuana
Yeah, I wish I had a pencil thin mustache
Then I could solve some mysteries too

Then it's flat top, dirty bob, coppin' a feel
Grubbin' on the livin' room floor (so sore)
Yeah, they send you off to college, try to gain a little knowledge,
But all you want to do is learn how to score

Yeah, but now I'm gettin' old, don't wear underwear
I don't go to church and I don't cut my hair
But I can go to movies and see it all there
Just the way that it used to be

Chorus:
That's why I wish I had a pencil thin mustache
The "Boston Blackie" kind
A two-toned Ricky Ricardo jacket
And an autographed picture of Andy Devine

Oh, I could be anyone I wanted to be
Maybe suave Errol Flynn or the Sheik of Araby
If I only had a pencil thin mustache
Then I could do some cruisin' too

Coda:
Yeah, Bryl-cream, a little dab'll do yah
Oh, I could do some cruisin' too

"We have met the enemy and they is us." I just listened to two jovial gentlemen on Bill's show. Entertaining, informative, but also disserving and selfserving. Yes humor and put downs sell well as I so well know teaching middle school youth. But there have been, there are, and there always will be experts (i.e. knowledgeable and with some power) who do get it right in journalism and in government. The Nation and the New Republic are not extremist mags. They have always represented the disparate voices of many ordinary and thoughtful citizens who are not often heard but who do vote and talk to their neighbors over the fence. In government there were many who spoke out about the stupidity of the Vietnam war but in the end politicians chose other experts to listen to. Ditto Iraq. A better title for their book, but less saleable although more honest, would be: The Experts Who Get Listened To?? In such a book, our two expertologists might spend a few pages examining the hubris, racism, and elitism that can befuddle and bewitch so many intelligent journalists and government analysts to make 'expert predictions' that are so tragically wrong. Perhaps more reading of Pogo, Shakespeare, Plato, LaoTzu (and other such poets) would provide more 'expert' insight into our human condition. "We Have Met The Enemy and They Is Us."

"We have met the enemy and they is us." I just listened to two jovial gentlemen on Bill's show. Entertaining, informative, but also disserving and selfserving. Yes humor aand put downs sell well as I so well know teaching middle school youth. But there have been, there are, and there always will be experts (i.e. knowledgeable and with some power) who do get it right in journalism and in government. The Nation and the New Republic are not extremist mags. They have always represented the disparate voices of many ordinary and thoughtful citizens who are not often heard but who do vote and talk to their neighbors over the fence. In government there were many who spoke out about the stupidity of the Vietnam war but in the end politicians chose other experts to listen to. Ditto Iraq. A better title for their book, but less saleable although more honest, would be: The Experts Who Get Listened To?? In such a book, our two expertologists might spend a few pages examining the hubris, racism, and elitism that can befuddle and bewitch so many intelligent journalists and government analysts to make 'expert predictions' that are so tragically wrong. Perhaps more reading of Pogo, Shakespeare, Plato, LaoTzu (and other such poets) would provide more 'expert' insight into our human condition. "We Have Met The Enemy and They Is Us."

Dear Bill Moyers:

I love what you do each week in interpreting the news through an alternative lens based on social justice. Even your interpretation of Reverend Jerimiah Wright’s comments legitimated his historical insights while criticizing him for forcing Obama to dissociate himself from Wright’s controversial remarks at the National Press Club in order to secure his white supporters while "shaming" white America for failing to recognize our racist past that animates Reverend Wright’s anger in the first place. But the interview with Navasky and Cerf would have been more appropriate on “The Daily Show” where they reveal how wrong the so-called “experts” were on Iraq, without offering any explanation for their ideological errors. Instead of pursuing what might have accounted for Cheney’s prescient insights into the political context of Iraq in 1991 that were clearly lacking in 2003, the audience is left with the oversimplified explanation that experts can be very wrong. While this might be surprising to some listeners, it does not provide any insights into the conditions which lead “experts” to disguise their imperialistic goals behind nationalistic rhetoric which ill prepares us for the backlash to American dominance that our “leaders” could not protect us from. What is different on Bill Moyers’ Journal from Fox News and even National Public Radio is the underlying story connecting the “facts” that are reported on. Kathleen Hall Jamieson talks about the techniques that are used by the political candidates to project the “story” they want to tell, while Bill Moyers (and Amy Goodman on "Democracy Now") provide an alternative story to the politically correct story acceptable to the corporate-dominated mainstream media.

Bob Griss, Ex. Director
Institute of Social Medicine & Community Health
975 Millwood Lane
Great Falls, VA 22066
Telephone: (703) 272-7707
and Coordinator of Nation Magazine Discussion Group in DC

OIL! WEAPONS! Show me the faces of those who make money, REAL MONEY on this war; those who gets all the bloody Iraqi oil these days?
That's where things get rough. Too dangerous. These people don't play spectacles a la James Bond, they kill for real.
... So, let's discuss who has invented MISSION ACCOMPLISHED statement...

“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,

nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.”


Mohandas Gandhi

wowieZowiE!!!!!
at long last, MR. Bill Moyers re-enters the rooM!!!
and a firebreathing, brimstone laced re-entry it is.
mr. moyers, is it only about the question of god that you are kind of goofy?
this week's journal on wnet/pbs was a stirring and deservedly vitriolic excoriation of the real criminals among us and i am deeply gratified to see your return to serious criticism of "life and death" decisions made by microencephalic cretins; -which the unsuspecting and, unfortunately, unconcerned(there is no mandate to be concerned, i recognise) "public" swallowZ faster than uncle jimmy beam's finest stock.
thank you sir, because until that broadcast, i had been having quite a rough week!
don vance
::spvix::

What is so telling from both segments is our own American prejudice that unless the country's leader is elected through the "democratic" process then we are not going to get the "best" leader. The American election, the media itself and the American government's network of experts is more of a process of self-validation as opposed to a search for real truth. "Self-validation" is really a process of self delusionment.

Media coverage? Which media? Frontline is helpful. Daily news is non-existent. Juan Cole is good. But is this the media you mean?

Have we gotten the PSAs yet for our oil companies in the oil sharing legislation in Iraq? This would give 70% rights to western oil companies and 10% to each of the three Iraqi constituencies. This has been tried several times but the Iraqis seem reluctant to fulfill our war goals.

Clearly, though not generally recognized, the whole effort is to secure future resources for our oil companies. In return for this trillion dollar effort, they will sell us reasonably cheap oil. This is a great deal for the 4000 lives lost (not to mention the 50,000 to 500,000 Iraqi lives), if we can only survive the inflation needed to pay for it.

How many mistakes does it take to believe WAR CRIMES were commited by US Leaders.

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