Bill Moyers Journal: Poll: The Experts Speak?

The blanant media outlets who are acting as Propaganda misistries are easy to recognize and avoid. by ignoring them we can effect their ratings thus effect their revenue by advertisers. 'Starve them Out'. But what is more difficult are those who appear to be 'doing thier jobs' reporting stories which shed some light on the criminal acts being committed- but are actually only skimming the surface of the real issue.Case in point focusing on the overt crimes of this Admin since 9/11 - but failing to use their 'evidence' to show exactly what the underlying cause of 9/11 was- Unethical and Immoral business practices by Multinationals in coordination with the Oppressive Regimes in the Middle East for Decades.REv Wright is another Blanant diversion form the real 'Religions ' which constitute a Clear and Present Danger to Our naitonal and international Security.Rev Wright was a Red Herring. No matter what one thinks of his Thoughts (crazy, misguided or even Unamaericna) they were jsut that - thoughts. NO call to arms to rise Up agianst the Gov't in any other way then with your votes. He was Right about everything -for those who do not llow the media or politicians to be...

Posted by: Purple Girl | May 16, 2008 7:37 AM

The illusion 'all comes down from above' is penetrated at last. Beautiful!

Posted by: Dinah | May 13, 2008 2:32 PM

When it comes down to it, the sequence of events leading to the 2nd Iraq War, as well as assumed justification to distort the basic tents of our Constitution; as well as disavow the International recognition of "Rights for prisoners under the Geneva Convention." By simply changing their general status to "Enemy Combatant", this change of terminology can simply aborgate and suspend the basic Bill of Rights given to every person. The Bush Administration made everyone less than a person. Now, in exigent matters, I wholeheartedly endorse using extraordinary means for extraordinary times; this should be a handful of individuals. However, when the basic tenet of the Interrogation Program is to abuse, humilate and shame, then--in the end--it is America who loses. Perhaps not at this moment, but the seeds planted by these actions will bear fruit for generations to come. Shame on the media for allowing this to happen. I really do not blame the politicians for the last 5 years. No, I cast my anguish and anger at the media; who simply jumpoed on the band wagon and acquiesed without resveration; and with great enthusiasm. The Third Estate let America down. GC Assad

Posted by: George C. Assad | May 11, 2008 6:47 PM

I'm sorry that Bill Moyers didn't reference a great book that he was quoted in: "The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam" by Barbara Tuchman, 1984. The late, wonderful historian basically showed how sheer hubris and stupidity led to the fall of Troy, loss by Britain of the American colonies and Vietnam. If only she could write about this debacle.

Posted by: John Fay | May 7, 2008 12:56 PM

Dear Bill, Thank you so much for such insightful comment on Rev Right; we all could almost be fooled again by a media machine... Please keep up the great efforts!!! America is a great country with great people; given time and good work she will shine again. First we need to find all the root causes that's killing our country, be it anyone, or any group. Who is benefiting from the pain of the majority; who has hijacked our policy, foreign and domestic, our finances, our values... Our real enemy is only a tiny few manipulating us right here living at the top and behind the scenes. Good people have to unite and make them pay, dearly. Think for ourselves! Take care

Posted by: Root Cause | May 6, 2008 6:36 PM

Hi All, A question Bill asked in this interview (Do experts learn from their mistakes?) was poorly answered by these experts. I don't fault these gentlemen, the answer to this question simply does not fall within their expertise. I suggest that your staff and my fellow viewers might welcome reading a useful new book on this topic. Mistakes were made (but not by me): why we justify foolish beliefs, bad decisions, and hurtful acts by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson. The book discusses the phenomenon of cognitive dissonance and clearly explains why all of us fall prey to the traps these so-called experts fall into. It is basically human nature. Read the book or have the authors on the show and let me know what you think. All the best, Paul

Posted by: Paul Reeberg | May 6, 2008 2:18 PM

Read Next Post: The chickens are settling in: Please don't let the Buzzards come home to roost!

Posted by: Grady Lee Howard | May 6, 2008 9:45 AM

EXPERTS: What is the nature of Capitalism? Before proceeding to the Capitol for lobbying this morning against the WINSEC (formerly, School of the Americas) which trains foreign militaries in torture and the undermining of democracy, I was listening to Morning Edition. Two stories stuck in my mind: #1- Bankers BB&T want to give Marshall College one million (to start with) to study the works and philosophy of Ayn Rand, the purveyor of the most extreme ideology of selfish idealism. The bank wants to see an army of Greenspans graduate to promote their interests. How selfish! (Can a corporation have a self? Should it?) #2-An unemployed woman recently contacted Countrywide (Now owned by Bank of America)for refinancing of her home. She was told by a broker to claim $50K in income for herself and to boost her manager husband's pay on the application. She expressed concern about dishonesty and he replied he could fix it. (Fixed rate?) After some questioning he informed her a fee of $10K would be required. The case is now under ineffectual investigation. Is this recalcitrance or just good selfish business? So you see, an economic climate that is destroying our economy and our nation is eagerly...

Posted by: Grady Lee Howard | May 6, 2008 9:35 AM

Mr. Moyers, I enjoyed your interview with the "Expertologists." You made a good point about the so-called experts not being held accountable, and in the case of a lucky few like Mr. Kristol, getting promoted. I'd like to point out that many outside the media expert oligopoly were correct about the Iraq War. Unfortunatley they were largely marginalized by the mainstream media, and remain so. Both Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky spoke out against the Iraq War before it started, and how many times did you see them on the cable news shows? They were largely excluded, and although they turned out to be correct, they remain so today. Even the supposedly "liberal" cable news shows like Keith Olbermann don't invite these guys on. It was almost painful revisiting so many of the absurdities and lies both leading up to the war and after. As an antidote, I'd like to revisit one of Howard Zinn's articles from 2002: http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0819-01.htm

Posted by: Nick | May 6, 2008 9:17 AM

Dr Mr. Moyers, I just watched the repeat of your show sunday evening. You finished by saying a second carrier, the USS Lincoln was going to the Persian Gulf. Sir, G Bush has only dispatched 2 carriers to the gulf once, just prior to the 15 British sailors being taken by the Iranians. I'm sure you remember the "Cornwall Incident". A US Carrier presence in the Persian Gulf is utter folly from a military standpoint, Iran is quite capable of sinking any warship in the Gulf. In fact a carrier based attack on Iran is just plain stupid, Carriers stationed in the Arabian Sea, that makes more sense. What does not make sense is using acrriers in the first place, carrier planes are not capable of carrying the kind of ordinance required, whether conventional or nuclear. The largest bunker buster a Carrier plane can carry is the GBU-28, @ 4400 pounds. The MOAB can only be dropped from a C-130, a land based plane. The rest of these “Busters” are too small, they can blow a crater about 20 to 30 feet deep in soil, not rock, not concrete. The B1, B2, B52, none can carry even a MOAB, let...

Posted by: Roger Fox | May 5, 2008 5:13 PM

According to Jim (not Belushi) Cinquo de Mayo, 8:14am: Capitalism is depending upon perpetual war to keep the poker game afloat. While his history is a bit simplistic, his conclusion is a tight fit. Jim, if you believe all of us near-retirees sit around listening to the Parrothead and Neil Young you should be gladly mistaken. What are your activist affiliations? If we don't assert "People Power" as beginning the change, what is Jim's recommendation? Grady would want me to remind you here that Bill Moyers has now remained a hostage 94 days to the commercial limitations of PBS/WNET. Daddy Bush's thousand black hole loci are beginning to converge. Derivatives are a larger market than all stock and commodities exchanges combined, redacted and unregulated. And did you ever think that if you were extremely wealthy you could borrow FED funds at 2% and use them to buy T-Bills (now available again in the 1 year denomination).The problem is most wealthy speculators are not satisfied with that but like to test the long odds, knowing we will be enslaved to bail them out.See how thet starve the masses! Economic science is a fraud: 95% of economic doctorates are employed by speculators...

Posted by: Jack Martin | May 5, 2008 12:43 PM

In your montage regarding the alleged "imminent threat" - not one person in the Bush administration said the threat was imminent. Is this fact lost in all the vituperation here? When fact checked, you will find that the first person to call the threat from Saddam "imminent" was none other than Sen. Edwards. Stuff that in your "expert" pipe! It depends on your definition of the word "imminent". Why would you attack a country pre-emptively that wasn't an "imminent" threat? To get oil or make money are the only two reasons. I can assure you there was never a doubt that the Bush administration wasn't trying to make all of us believe there was a threat where none existed. On the "Spinsanity" they say that Fleischer never used the term "imminent danger" himself and just because he twice affirmed an "imminent threat" when it was put in a question from reporters. So I guess if you agree with statements you can't be held accountable for what the statement says. According to "Spinsanity" the Bush administration declared the term "imminent treat" needed to be redefined in order for it to fit Iraq which is exactly what he did and continues to...

Posted by: Karen | May 5, 2008 12:21 PM

The tragedies of Vietnam and Iraq are still triumphs for American capitalism since that is what they are all about. Just as Bush Sr declared the New World Order in 1989, we know that order is big banks and mega-corporations. Afterall Blair stood side by side with GW during Iraq; Great Britain the nation that invented capitalism and advanced it in the 19th century along with the USA that advanced it globally in the 20th century. The liberals simply lament the days of the 60's when they could use the media to protest gov't policies. Like the Jimmy Buffett song they can just sit and watch: "Yeah, but now I'm gettin' old, don't wear underwear I don't go to church and I don't cut my hair But I can go to movies and see it all there Just the way that it used to be"

Posted by: Jim | May 5, 2008 8:14 AM

On May 2 Bill closed his show with: CBS NEWS and the WASHINGTON POST have both reported recently that the Pentagon is drawing up options for military strikes against Iran. The Secretary of Defense says that's not so. But Washington has moved a second carrier into the Persian Gulf — the USS Lincoln, the very same ship on whose deck President Bush landed five years ago yesterday to announce the end of major combat operations in Iraq. The USS Lincoln entered the Persian Gulf on April 30th and the USS Truman (first carrier) left the gulf on May 1 and is heading home. Unless he can come up with the name of a third carrier that’s steaming around the gulf, Bill’s closing is nonsense. The closing does have a nice punch to it though despite the facts. The White House probably thought Mission Accomplished had a punch to it at the time.

Posted by: Adam | May 5, 2008 4:02 AM

Here's the only thing i can add to this...and keep in mind this isn't even the 'brains' behind the greedy mess...this is only the imbecile that had his brother to help steal the election from someone competent...The worst part is that the US citizens stood for it...It's shameful, really. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

Posted by: Sir Vertual | May 5, 2008 3:33 AM

Robert; The reason you hear chickens clucking is because you are one of the chickens in the chicken house. It takes courage to speak the truth and do what is right instead of what is convenient. Any idiot can wave the flag and go along with undermining the foundations of this nation.

Posted by: David Eddy | May 5, 2008 12:59 AM

vote with your dollars... support independent media: http://www.therealnews.com/ no government funding no corporate funding no advertising * I'm am not affiliated with The Real News, just a supporter.

Posted by: Ken | May 4, 2008 11:24 PM

When referring to the "Mission Accomplished" incident, it is ESSENTIAL to point out that it was a wholly staged photo shoot 30 miles off the San Diego coast. It is also worth noting that in addition to being a bully and a liar Bush is (technically, under the UCMJ) a deserter in time of war.

Posted by: Steve J | May 4, 2008 9:12 PM

Dr Mr. Moyers, I just watched the repeat of your show sunday evening. You finished by saying a second carrier, the USS Lincoln was going to the Persian Gulf. Sir, G Bush has only dispatched 2 carriers to the gulf once, just prior to the 15 British sailors being taken by the Iranians. I'm sure you remember the "Cornwall Incident". A US Carrier presence in the Persian Gulf is utter folly from a military standpoint, Iran is quite capable of sinking any warship in the Gulf. In fact a carrier based attack on Iran is just plain stupid, Carriers stationed in the Arabian Sea, that makes more sense. What does not make sense is using acrriers in the first place, carrier planes are not capable of carrying the kind of ordinance required, whether conventional or nuclear. The largest bunker buster a Carrier plane can carry is the GBU-28, @ 4400 pounds. The MOAB can only be dropped from a C-130, a land based plane. The rest of these “Busters” are too small, they can blow a crater about 20 to 30 feet deep in soil, not rock, not concrete. The B1, B2, B52, none can carry even a MOAB, let...

Posted by: Roger Fox | May 4, 2008 8:28 PM

I hear the chickens clucking

Posted by: Robert | May 4, 2008 7:08 PM

Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf were wonderful and informative speakers. I think pres. Bush is simply a liar, conscious and approved by the dominant class.

Posted by: Mario Rios Pinot | May 4, 2008 3:01 PM

I just finished watching your interview with Reverend Wright and feel the need to respond. Though I am neither Black, nor Christian, I was moved by his thoughtful and articulate discussion of the tricky intersection of spirituality and politics. I found the clips of his sermons to be surprisingly inspiring and relevant to my outrage and despair about US policy, both foreign and domestic. I imagine that having Obama turn against him so publicly must be a very painful addition to an already frustrating situation as he finds his work misrepresented in the corporate media. I just want him to know that someone was touched by his words. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for providing a forum for people to fully develop their thoughts and positions. You do a great service to our country by promoting reasoned public discussion.

Posted by: Sally | May 4, 2008 1:46 AM

I would say that this is the age of incompetence. Reality and truth are no longer relative. Education is no longer consistent with the requirements for understanding reality or truth. What is worse is that we can no longer understand each other. Disinformation has taken its toll and common sense is no longer common. The foundation of civilization is crumbling and top heavy economics is destroying the quality of life. There is still the faint light of hope that people will get a glimpse of the value of life and do what is necessary to sure up our institutions. It will be necessary that we understand what is truth and what is real and use that information to repair the present and secure the future. The voice of the people must be heard and the courage to write the truth must be reborn.

Posted by: David Eddy | May 4, 2008 1:20 AM

What intrigues me is that no mention was made of the fitting metaphor for the Bush presidency of the landing on the carrier of a jet capable of flying at speeds near 600 mph (450 knots) only 30 miles from shore and the effort to conceal that fact from the viewing public. So much of this presidency has consisted of deliberate efforts to conceal, distort and mask facts from the rewriting of global warming literature to the selling of No Child Left Behind by Armstrong Williams to the misrepresentation of the facts leading up to the rewrite of Medicare / Medicaid legislation to the attaboys given to George Tenet and Katrina "Brownie" to the failed and misguided "Faith Based Charities" of which the lion's share of the funding was given to Christian charities overwhelmingly while they doth protest too much about whether they have to abide by federal regulations (read "strings attached) or have to share it with organizations whose faith they happen to disagree with, which, by the way, what exactly would be the definition of "faith" anyways? In addition, we learned that "deficits don't matter anymore" and that the Vice President is a branch of government all its...

Posted by: Mike | May 3, 2008 11:56 PM

Thank you once again Bill Moyers for bringing more light to the unjustified IRAQ WAR. For bringing more light by inviting Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf to speak about their book MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. I have to agree with Andrew Brewer's comments on this blog- "Actually the Mission really has been Accomplished. Boardrooms across country/world are celebrating the extraction of our tax dollars into their bank accounts. A "Mission Accomplished" banner should be hanging in front of every gas station in the country, as well as at the headquarters of all the weapons dealers, engineering and construction firms, private military bandits, etc. who've profited from this fiasco". In my opinion, Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf are making a point that goes further than the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED of George Bush, Cheney & Co. and it is the profitability of this war and how well the government has planned it and used 9/11 as an excuse. And as Bill Moyers said in the essay about Jeremiah Wright, "actions have consequences"...9/11 might had been a consequence of previous actions in our part for getting our noses where they do not belong, or as many of us think, 9/11 might had been planned by ours...

Posted by: Fernando | May 3, 2008 7:07 PM

In your montage regarding the alleged "imminent threat" - not one person in the Bush administration said the threat was imminent. Is this fact lost in all the vituperation here? When fact checked, you will find that the first person to call the threat from Saddam "imminent" was none other than Sen. Edwards. Stuff that in your "expert" pipe!

Posted by: Prospector | May 3, 2008 4:33 PM

Appreciated many of the food-for-thought comments above. I, too, greatly admire the voice and courage of Bill Moyers. "Bill Moyers Journal" is a must-watch in our home. His conversations are part of our continuing education, and we missed Moyers when he was off the air. In a former interview w. Moyers, Ms. Jamieson recommended that after a debate, viewers should turn off the TV and think about their own reactions to the debate and make up their own minds about what they heard. I think she's right. My husband and I, have been following her advice and talking to each other about our reactions. At the same time, there are some commentators whose perspectives we listen to - Mark Shields, David Brooks, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Michael Bechloss, David Gergen and many of the guests on Charlie Rose, Tavis Smiley, and The Jim Lehrer News Hour.) Thank goodness for PBS! While I listen to many knowledgeable guests, pundits and supposed experts, I do pay attention to my gut instincts. During the build up to the Iraq war, I did not fall prey to the fear-mongering tactics and repetitious comments of key figures in the Bush administration & of several neo-cons who...

Posted by: Eileen Green - Politically Disturbed | May 3, 2008 4:33 PM

Mr Moyers: Thank you for your comments about Reverend Wright. They were like a breath of fresh air. Regarding his speech at the NAACP: From the time we are born, many of us get the message that we aren’t quite good enough, that we don’t really measure up to expectations. From non-verbal parental responses about dirty diapers, cries for attention, erratic sleep habits etc, to innumerable, overt, displeased responses from parents, teachers, employers, co-workers, family members and even "friends," we develop a mind set that we are deficient in some way, that others are superior. This leads to an unconscious practice of judging ourselves in comparison to others and judging others in comparison to ourselves. It limits our ability to accept and reverence ourselves and others as we are and not some cultural ideal of what we think we should be. Reverend Wright's lesson is the gateway to achieving reconciliation in a variety of spheres, beyond race. First, it is a way to reconcile with ourselves. After a lifetime, I have experienced a new level of appreciation for others and for myself.

Posted by: we're different | May 3, 2008 3:41 PM

Actually the Mission really has been Accomplished. Boardrooms across country/world are celebrating the extraction of our tax dollars into their bank accounts. A "Mission Accomplished" banner should be hanging in front of every gas station in the country, as well as at the headquarters of all the weapons dealers, engineering and construction firms, private military bandits, etc. who've profited from this fiasco. And yes Bill, it does seem odd that the folks who screw up the most are the ones most likely to get promoted. An honest assessment of why that is deserves a series of its own. I think a perfect guest to explain this to us would be one of the guys who has actually gotten most everything right about U.S. policy since the 1960s, Noam Chomsky. It seems that if you get it right consistently--like Chomsky has, your fate is to be banished from mainstream media--even PBS. Thank goodness for Free Speech TV (Democracy Now, etc.). Chomsky on PBS... now that really would be Mission Accomplished for those of us intent on actually learning anything.

Posted by: Andrew Brewer | May 3, 2008 3:36 PM

I went to sleep laughing and woke up laughing at the sly, wry experts of "Expertology". What I wouldn't give to be a fly on their wall, except I'd probably fall over buzzing with laughter and give myself away... I don't believe Cheney was "prescient" at all but the deliberate mastermind behind all that's gone wrong with our government's Iraq and energy policies, to his and his corporate cronies' great financial benefit.

Posted by: Janet Persons | May 3, 2008 1:55 PM

Special thanks to Mr. Moyers and Mr. Navasky for their lifelong dedication to those principles we now call progressive. While "experts" proliferate, in times of war, with greater frequency than ants, only those with imagination, and vision can help foster an intellectual climate that is open to continual self-discovery. Those of us who value openness over secrecy, accountability over obfuscation, uncovering the news rather than cover-ups, courage over cowering, will be grateful for the contributions of these two architects of political conscience, Bill Moyers and Victor Navasky, for generations to come.

Posted by: Jayne Lyn Stahl | May 3, 2008 1:55 PM

JEREMIAH WRIGHT SECULAR TRUTH OR GOD’S TRUTH? Greetings Brethren, Peace be unto you. Mr. Moyers this is a brilliant assessment of the situation with Minister Wright. Especially coming from a White journalist. However we must admit with all the irresponsible journalist Black and White it is unlikely to get anyone in the national media from the Black community to make an analysis of this situation more in-depth and on target than what you have done. However since Minister Wright (No preacher is to be shown are given the title of Rev. as this belongs to God) is such a brilliant man why want he teach the Truth of the Bible. Minister Wright notes he has to answer to God. Then stop lying on God regarding your responsibility to speak up about the sins in the church. It is for certain that believers should realize that all things are made smooth with Jesus. Therefore the sins of American Imperialism, etc. are conquered by accepting Jesus Christ. Therefore Preachers have enough to preach about regarding the sins and crimes committed in the church and the on-going lies told about giving (Tithes & Offerings) etc. So who are the hypocrites here? I heard...

Posted by: Carl A. Patton | May 3, 2008 1:49 PM

Dear Bill - thanks for a thoughtful recap on the Wright interview, like many of us I found him to be a thoroughly admirable man, and as Joan pointed out this spectacle serves to point out the shallowness of the media. It's a real shame that Obama couldn't find the means or the courage to bring the issues Rev. Wright addresses to the political forum in a substantive way. The immorality of racism in America is part and parcel of the same devaluation of human life for profit that brought us the Vietnam war and Iraq. Your expertologists talked about the public's short memory but negelected to remind us that many of the same experts were the architects of both conflicts. In particular, Cheney's now famous 1994 interview in which he calmly delineates the reasons not to stay in Iraq can only be reconciled with his later turnaround by realizing that he knew invasion was wrong and went ahead and did it anyway, telling a passel of lies to sell it to Congress and the American public. Why? Because his company, Halliburton, the oil cartel and all of the other reigning members of the military-industrial complex stood to make BILLIONS...

Posted by: David Lubertozzi | May 3, 2008 1:38 PM

Dear Mr Moyers and Viewers, How many of you out there with long term memory can think back to the media's "Yeah-Rah-Rah" coverage when the war started? Remember all the flag waving banners that would wave on the screen and the songs that were played whenever news about the Iraq War - on any network - was about to be announced? Excuse me ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and FOX - but whatever happened to your "Yeah-Rah-Rah" War Reporting, Songs and Banners? Did it stop when things stopped going as planned and you realized you had been suckered? Just wondering.

Posted by: Tom Wieliczka | May 3, 2008 1:36 PM

Victor Navasky and Christopher Cerf thank you! Keep up the great work!

Posted by: Dave | May 3, 2008 1:32 PM

Bill I have loved your view point on most things and have admired you for years but on this issuer or the Rev. Wright you have turned me off big time. I do not agree with you take on this situation. Wright is WRONG on the issues and he fosters hate and racism when WE are trying to heal the wounds and sins of the past. Wright, in my view is an ego maniac and has no love or respect to the white people who risk their lives for his Freedom to be an @ss. Sorry, I will NOT vote for his long time FRIEND. You are dead wrong on this issue and I can't believe what I an hearing from you.

Posted by: Karl | May 3, 2008 1:01 PM

Dear Mr. Moyers: In reference to the Rev. Wright situation and the negative pouncing from the media, you’re mentioning MNSBC, and other media on your program was so vital to our National Morality. From the moment I heard your interviews with Joseph Campbell, which has influenced my life greatly; I follow your programs and am truly grateful you are a voice for many and me. You in so many words and programs express the importance of “Virtue”, which grounds the human in moral behavior. I am not a researcher or scholar, but know the great philosopher, leaders, journalists, politicians and theologians who are humanitarian go to “virtue” a source for guidance. Jesus embraced all of mankind, which defines him as great of all humanitarian. Jesus, so often misunderstood, was the greatest model a virtuous life. Not to equate suffering with virtue, but to point out how the human needs to destroy the good in nature. To point out how we need to “take down what is good”? Mr. Moyers, why? What is this “destroyer factor” in the human that “good” cannot rise? Mary Ann Greco

Posted by: Mary Ann Greco | May 3, 2008 12:08 PM

Everybody remember what Dana Perino(4.30.08 White House Briefing) said, "Mission Accomplished" didn´t mean "Mission Accomplish." Go to Goggle video and see and hear for yourself what this means years after when Bush said it.

Posted by: david peri | May 3, 2008 11:55 AM

WARS? WHAT WARS? Hollywood drunk actress cases are more important to today's news corpSE (dead form the neck up) Media Coverage of the Middle East Oil War(s) is non-existent. Note that war(s) is plural as in two wars, since we still have troops in AFGHANISTAN, which goes UNreported as if the troops are all home. You know Afghanistan, don't you? Its that place where "Osama been Forgotten" is training his next group of terrorists thugs to attack us - again!! These "so-called war experts" the MSM put on their talking head shows, are always pro-war and pathetic! Has even one of these "expert" clowns gotten anything right yet or sent somebody from their family into battle? I'm still waiting! It is going to take the media having to send someone from their family over there - for multiple tours of duty (stop loss) and fighting the wrong enemy, for them to see what it is like and what war does to a family.

Posted by: Tom | May 3, 2008 11:36 AM

Bill, aren't you going to become one of those reporters that will be replaced for not towing the experts line? Another thing, your show being televised, while the majority of Americans are either customarily dining out on Friday night or watching a mindless HBO thriller, helps these so-called experts to validate their false propaganda. Your show should be broadcast following the 'Newshour' or during primetime.

Posted by: Steve Saalman | May 3, 2008 9:45 AM

I think that the focus on experts' lack of prescience, satirical and otherwise, is part of a circular argument about the war. The debate has been and continues to be about who "got it right." we compare people who said that would be a cakewalk to those who said it was a quagmire in the making. We are asked to judge the war on the basis of whether it was militarily successful and which experts "got it right." In a broader sense, General Sherman got it right. War IS hell. That's why loosing it on another people can never be done as lightly as our government did in this case, no matter what their experts said.

Posted by: David Paquette | May 3, 2008 8:54 AM

Hello...I remember when this whole war thing started, I said to my wife, "Oh, no...not again!" Look at the hole we dug ourselves in. Why didn´t Chaney listen to himself and take his own advice and counselled the president´s staff what will happen when the U.S. gets bogged-down in Iraq. david peri

Posted by: david peri | May 3, 2008 3:20 AM

We are the experts. We were in the streets before the invasion. We are still the experts and we are still in the streets. And we do remember. Don’t turn it on, all those experts on the Jim Liars News Hour, PBS.

Posted by: James Lesley | May 3, 2008 2:25 AM

Dear Mr. Moyers, I was so touched by your comments at the beginning of tonight's show. If virtual hugs matter, I'm sending you one. You never fail to make me think. Thank you for that and God bless!

Posted by: Alice Robinson | May 3, 2008 2:01 AM

Regarding Gandhi's wisdom on truth and error: Unfortunately, error shapes, i.e., BECOMES reality precisely because nobody (or nearly no one) sees the truth. Hence, we've become saddled with a paradox that paralyzes our society: the error is now our new truth. Mr Moyers is the brilliant exception. His reflection on the complex motivation of Reverend Wright's recent behavior bespoke a heart-wrenching effort on his part (Moyers') to mine deeper into the labyrinthine logic that can lead us to the greater, more enduring, and ultimately liberating truth. Mr. Moyers, namaste.

Posted by: mary kierzek | May 3, 2008 1:58 AM

All of the experts were wrong about Iraq, as they were about Vietnam, and no one listened to the millions of Americans who marched in protest to both wars from the very beginning. My bumper sticker read "No attack on Iraq." Why doesn't Congress, the Media, the Pentagon, the President--why doesn't anyone ever listen to the real experts--The American People?

Posted by: Ed Schilling | May 3, 2008 1:45 AM

Bill, in your editorial at the beginning, I think you missed a few important points. I am including some of them here: Who Needs the Context? By Harry Willson The American public is allowing the media to make its points through the use of magic words and phrases. It brings to mind the old game of quoting Bible verses, out of context, to make a new point. Here's my favorite example: "Judas went out and hanged himself." "Go and do thou likewise." "What thou doest do quickly." The Bible doesn't really say that. All three verses do indeed appear in the Bible, in three different contexts, but they don't mean what the person quoting them is pretending. The media is doing the same thing with old sermons from Barak Obama's pastor. In a somewhat lengthy context the pastor is talking about the idea of God as a God of justice. Slavery and lynching and segregation are offensive to that God, the pastor tells his black congregation. It doesn't matter if white folks sing, "God Bless America." The God of Justice is inclined the other way, the pastor reminds his congregation. In his lathered-up excitement the pastor cries out, "God bless...

Posted by: Joan | May 3, 2008 1:44 AM

Whether the response to the Rev. Mr. Wright emerges essentially from racism might be true. Still, that seems beside the point. Senator Clinton simply has better experience, maturity, and insight than Senator Obama, who still seems glib and lightweight like his pastor. If the Democratic Party wants my vote this fall, they need to give me Senator Clinton. Otherwise, Saint Ralph gets my vote again.

Posted by: Ted Michael Morgan | May 3, 2008 1:21 AM

Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments at the beginning of your show about Jeremiah Wright. I totally agree with you and wish that the rest of the country would take the time to better understand Reverend Wright and where he is coming from. Thank you for a wonderful program.

Posted by: Kate Harris | May 3, 2008 1:16 AM

I hope everyone would recall how WWI and WWII began and realize that Iran and Russia have a mutual defence treaty and if the US goes to war against Iran then Russia will go to war with the US. The Russian Bear is reawakening. I was once in SAC in the Air Force so this is all happening all over again.

Posted by: Philip Roberts | May 3, 2008 1:08 AM

Bill, A good and revealing segment on the "experts". I would just like to say one thing: In the context of your discussion, I believe your guests have confused the term "experts" with the more accurate term "propagandists". Maybe "party line" or "administration propagandists" is more like it.

Posted by: Steve | May 3, 2008 1:08 AM

I found this segment very offensive. How are we to know what's going on in the world without experts? If I want to know whether or not many Americans in the Midwest are bitter, I don't trust somebody from Kansas giving their uninformed opinion - I want to know what our experts in New York and Washington say, because they know. Next week, Mr. Moyers, please have some experts instead.

Posted by: Richard Berndt | May 3, 2008 1:00 AM

This was such a great segment. It was delicious listening to these funny, brilliant men but with such an important message. I also feel so much smarter after I watch this program. Thank you Bill Moyers for the best hour in television. By the way, I adore Ms. Jamieson. She seems to put everything in such profound perspective.

Posted by: maria | May 3, 2008 12:56 AM

The country of Iraq has been destroyed The Ice Caps are melting off the planet China is about to buy our stock market ...but I just got a great rate on my mortgage!!

Posted by: Optimist | May 3, 2008 12:32 AM

did....someone just....quote.....waLt keLLy....?

Posted by: donald vance | May 3, 2008 12:00 AM

Pencil Thin Mustache By: Jimmy Buffett 1974 Now they make new movies in old black and white With happy endings, where nobody fights So if you find yourself in that nostalgic rage Honey, jump right up and show your age Chorus: I wish I had a pencil thin mustache The "Boston Blackie" kind A two toned Ricky Ricardo jacket And an autographed picture of Andy Devine I remember bein' buck-toothed and skinny Writin' fan letters to "Sky King" and Penny Oh I wish I had a pencil thin mustache Then I could solve some mysteries too Then it's Bandstand, Disneyland, growin' up fast Drinkin' on a fake I.D. Yeah, and Rama of the jungle was everyone's Bawana But only jazz musicians were smokin' marijuana Yeah, I wish I had a pencil thin mustache Then I could solve some mysteries too Then it's flat top, dirty bob, coppin' a feel Grubbin' on the livin' room floor (so sore) Yeah, they send you off to college, try to gain a little knowledge, But all you want to do is learn how to score Yeah, but now I'm gettin' old, don't wear underwear I don't go to church and I don't cut my...

Posted by: Jim | May 2, 2008 11:47 PM

"We have met the enemy and they is us." I just listened to two jovial gentlemen on Bill's show. Entertaining, informative, but also disserving and selfserving. Yes humor and put downs sell well as I so well know teaching middle school youth. But there have been, there are, and there always will be experts (i.e. knowledgeable and with some power) who do get it right in journalism and in government. The Nation and the New Republic are not extremist mags. They have always represented the disparate voices of many ordinary and thoughtful citizens who are not often heard but who do vote and talk to their neighbors over the fence. In government there were many who spoke out about the stupidity of the Vietnam war but in the end politicians chose other experts to listen to. Ditto Iraq. A better title for their book, but less saleable although more honest, would be: The Experts Who Get Listened To?? In such a book, our two expertologists might spend a few pages examining the hubris, racism, and elitism that can befuddle and bewitch so many intelligent journalists and government analysts to make 'expert predictions' that are so tragically wrong. Perhaps more reading...

Posted by: Michael Engel | May 2, 2008 11:29 PM

"We have met the enemy and they is us." I just listened to two jovial gentlemen on Bill's show. Entertaining, informative, but also disserving and selfserving. Yes humor aand put downs sell well as I so well know teaching middle school youth. But there have been, there are, and there always will be experts (i.e. knowledgeable and with some power) who do get it right in journalism and in government. The Nation and the New Republic are not extremist mags. They have always represented the disparate voices of many ordinary and thoughtful citizens who are not often heard but who do vote and talk to their neighbors over the fence. In government there were many who spoke out about the stupidity of the Vietnam war but in the end politicians chose other experts to listen to. Ditto Iraq. A better title for their book, but less saleable although more honest, would be: The Experts Who Get Listened To?? In such a book, our two expertologists might spend a few pages examining the hubris, racism, and elitism that can befuddle and bewitch so many intelligent journalists and government analysts to make 'expert predictions' that are so tragically wrong. Perhaps more reading...

Posted by: Michael Engel | May 2, 2008 11:24 PM

Dear Bill Moyers: I love what you do each week in interpreting the news through an alternative lens based on social justice. Even your interpretation of Reverend Jerimiah Wright’s comments legitimated his historical insights while criticizing him for forcing Obama to dissociate himself from Wright’s controversial remarks at the National Press Club in order to secure his white supporters while "shaming" white America for failing to recognize our racist past that animates Reverend Wright’s anger in the first place. But the interview with Navasky and Cerf would have been more appropriate on “The Daily Show” where they reveal how wrong the so-called “experts” were on Iraq, without offering any explanation for their ideological errors. Instead of pursuing what might have accounted for Cheney’s prescient insights into the political context of Iraq in 1991 that were clearly lacking in 2003, the audience is left with the oversimplified explanation that experts can be very wrong. While this might be surprising to some listeners, it does not provide any insights into the conditions which lead “experts” to disguise their imperialistic goals behind nationalistic rhetoric which ill prepares us for the backlash to American dominance that our “leaders” could not protect us from. What...

Posted by: Bob Griss | May 2, 2008 11:19 PM

OIL! WEAPONS! Show me the faces of those who make money, REAL MONEY on this war; those who gets all the bloody Iraqi oil these days? That's where things get rough. Too dangerous. These people don't play spectacles a la James Bond, they kill for real. ... So, let's discuss who has invented MISSION ACCOMPLISHED statement...

Posted by: DG | May 2, 2008 10:42 PM

“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.” Mohandas Gandhi

Posted by: V Panzica | May 2, 2008 10:34 PM

wowieZowiE!!!!! at long last, MR. Bill Moyers re-enters the rooM!!! and a firebreathing, brimstone laced re-entry it is. mr. moyers, is it only about the question of god that you are kind of goofy? this week's journal on wnet/pbs was a stirring and deservedly vitriolic excoriation of the real criminals among us and i am deeply gratified to see your return to serious criticism of "life and death" decisions made by microencephalic cretins; -which the unsuspecting and, unfortunately, unconcerned(there is no mandate to be concerned, i recognise) "public" swallowZ faster than uncle jimmy beam's finest stock. thank you sir, because until that broadcast, i had been having quite a rough week! don vance ::spvix::

Posted by: donald vance | May 2, 2008 10:20 PM

What is so telling from both segments is our own American prejudice that unless the country's leader is elected through the "democratic" process then we are not going to get the "best" leader. The American election, the media itself and the American government's network of experts is more of a process of self-validation as opposed to a search for real truth. "Self-validation" is really a process of self delusionment.

Posted by: V Panzica | May 2, 2008 10:06 PM

Media coverage? Which media? Frontline is helpful. Daily news is non-existent. Juan Cole is good. But is this the media you mean? Have we gotten the PSAs yet for our oil companies in the oil sharing legislation in Iraq? This would give 70% rights to western oil companies and 10% to each of the three Iraqi constituencies. This has been tried several times but the Iraqis seem reluctant to fulfill our war goals. Clearly, though not generally recognized, the whole effort is to secure future resources for our oil companies. In return for this trillion dollar effort, they will sell us reasonably cheap oil. This is a great deal for the 4000 lives lost (not to mention the 50,000 to 500,000 Iraqi lives), if we can only survive the inflation needed to pay for it.

Posted by: Bruce Ackerson | May 2, 2008 9:59 PM

How many mistakes does it take to believe WAR CRIMES were commited by US Leaders.

Posted by: Julio Rafael Garcia-Granados Davila | May 2, 2008 9:46 PM

Poll: The Experts Speak?

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