Is it in America’s interest to have closer Cuban connection? – Part 2

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• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  We return to the historic shift in U.S.-Cuban relations in two parts.

  First, we look at if it's a good idea to reestablish diplomatic relations with the island nation.

  We begin with a member of the Democratic House leadership, Representative Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who traveled today from Cuba with Alan Gross. Gross lives in his district.

  Congressman Van Hollen, welcome back to the "NewsHour."

  First of all, tell us, why is it in the interest of the United States to have diplomatic relations with the communist neighbor?

  REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) Maryland: Well, it's in the interest of the United States to create conditions that create more freedom and opportunity for the Cuban people.

  And what's very clear is that our policy of the last 54 years, which was designed to isolate and punish Cuba, has been a total failure, by its own measure. We have not helped open up the island. We have not created more democracy. In fact, it has sustained the Castro brothers for these 54 years. They have survived eight U.S. presidents.

  So, when a policy is clearly failing, try something else. And engaging the Cuban people with greater travel, greater communication, with greater trade will help create the conditions and create pressure, I believe, ultimately, on the regime.

  So it's time to try a strategy that works for the Cuban people. This is not in any way a reward for the regime. In fact, the regime has been empowered by the failed policy of the last 54 years.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Well, House Speaker John Boehner is saying this is appeasing, in his words, a brutal dictator. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida and others are saying this should never have even been thought about as long as the people of Cuba are not free.

• REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:

  Yes, but here's the question, Judy.

  So I think the burden is on the critics to say how another five years, another 10 years of the current policy changes that condition, because what those critics are describing is the condition that exists under the old policy, the policy before today.

  So, if that's not working, if that's actually empowering the regime to stay where they are, engagement is the alternative, because what the engagement will do is allow more interaction between the American people and the Cuban people, more trade, more marketplace exchanges, more communications equipment into Cuba to attach.

  So, by creating the conditions for more openness, you will create, over time, more opportunities for an open Cuba.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  But where is the guarantee that the Cuban leadership is going to open up, is going to create these freedoms that they haven't granted for the last 50-plus years?

• REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:

  Well, there's no absolute guarantee, but this is not something that is for the regime. This is no gift to the regime.

  In fact, the people who should be most scared about the president's policies are the people who want to limit freedom in Cuba, because what we know is that the current policy has been the one that has denied freedom to the Cuban people. And this is an alternative that will help open things up.

  So people are trying to create this false premise that somehow this does a favor to the Castro brothers. It doesn't do any favors. I think, over time, you're going to find the Cuban regime is the one that is put most at risk by this greater exchange of ideas and goods.

  That has been the case in many other countries around the world, and I think it will be the case in Cuba. So no one's expecting in the next 24 hours or the next year for the regime somehow to change. But what will change is the interaction between the American people and Cuba, between Cuba and the outside world, and that will help create the conditions for change.

  Clearly, the current policy has been a miserable failure on its own terms. And you have just mentioned it. The critics keep saying, look at Cuba, what a terrible place it is. That is partly the consequence of our failed 54-year policy.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Representative Chris Van Hollen, we thank you.

• REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:

  Thank you.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Now, for a different perspective, we turn to former Ambassador Roger Noriega, who served as assistant secretary of state for the Western Hemisphere during the George W. Bush administration. He's now a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and he has his own consulting firm.

  Ambassador Noriega, welcome to the program.

  You just heard Congressman Van Hollen. You know President Obama today called the current policy a failure. Why isn't this the right move now?

  ROGER NORIEGA, Former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State: Well, the president's taken an extraordinarily dangerous bet.

  He has made unilateral concessions to the Castro dictatorship, a dictatorship that's drawing its last breaths. And by normalizing political relationships, diplomatic relationships, he confers a legitimacy on that regime that it doesn't deserve.

  If he's wrong in that bet — and I note that he didn't even ask for any changes from the Cuban dictatorship — if he's wrong in that bet, the people that will pay for it are the 11 million Cubans.

  Alan Gross was one hostage. There are 11 million hostages left behind. And it's extraordinarily important that the president understands that he can't just make a speech and walk away from this. He owns this now. And he needs to take vigorous steps to engage the Latin American and Caribbean countries in particular to press the regime to respect the fundamental freedoms of the Cuban people that are neglected, that are denied them systematically by the regime in Havana.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  What about the argument, though, we just heard that opening up U.S.-Cuba relations with trade, with travel, with communications is going to put pressure on the Castro regime to change?

• ROGER NORIEGA:

  Well, this is not the new Obama policy. This is the old Canadian policy. They tried it starting 15 years ago, and it was a miserable failure.

  The reason that you haven't seen meaningful change in Cuba is because you have an implacable regime that understands that opening up in the slightest way, they will eventually lose power in a catastrophic way for them. So they will not open up.

  It's — and, unfortunately, the president is betting on some sort of goodwill from that self-same implacable regime. It's really an unwise policy to resuscitate the people on the island who are the single biggest obstacle to political and economic change.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  But if the current condition — we just heard Congressman Van Hollen say this — if the current policy isn't working, why will another four years, five years, another 50 years make a difference of this policy?

• ROGER NORIEGA:

  Well, I understand that argument.

  The issue for us today is not whether we are going to break relationships with Havana. It's whether — how you go about reestablishing those things. And the policy of the United States is predicated on the principle that we will normalize relations as a regime there demonstrates its will to change in a meaningful way.

  And we use it as leverage to make sure that those political and economic changes are profound, deep, and irreversible.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  What about — just finally, the United States has diplomatic relations with other commentator nations where people are not free, China, Vietnam. Why not with Cuba?

• ROGER NORIEGA:

  Well, because, at this point, as I said, we have predicated our policy on expecting a transitional government there to make meaningful change.

  The Castro regime will not do so. And we have tried new things. We have tried to reach out to the Cuban people. We sent a man like Alan Gross to reach out to the Cuban people, to give them access to the Internet, something as simple as that, and he went to jail for two years by the same regime that we're betting is somehow now going to change its stripes. And, unfortunately, the Cuban people will pay the price for this unwise move.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Ambassador Roger Noriega, we thank you.

• ROGER NORIEGA:

  Thank you.