How Donald Trump defied party wisdom to become the face of the GOP

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• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  On this day with more than its share of political tumult, the questions abound. How exactly did Donald Trump upend the Republican Party to become its presumptive nominee for president? And how does Bernie Sanders' decision to stay in the race affect Hillary Clinton?

  For some answers, we turn to Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for USA Today, and Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent for The Washington Post.

  And welcome to both of you.

  So, I think it's fair to say that, a year ago, hardly anybody thought Donald Trump would have sewn up his party's nomination by now, Susan, much less before Hillary Clinton sews up hers. How did he do it?

• SUSAN PAGE, USA Today:

  You know, he didn't have the best campaign organization. He didn't have experienced people around him. He didn't have the best pollster, the best ads. He didn't spend the most money.

  He had a message. He had a message and an understanding of the mood of the part of the American electorate that almost no one else did, at how angry and frustrated and how much a desire of a different kind of politics — that group of Republicans in these primaries, the kind of politics they were ready to embrace.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Karen, what would you add?

• KAREN TUMULTY, The Washington Post:

  Well, I think not only did he have that. He had it early.

  The fact is, Donald Trump, six days after the 2012 election, filed the paperwork to trademark the phrase that would become the signature of his campaign, which is "Make America great again." He not only had a sense of the electorate, but he had it early, and he had it at a time when the Republican Party elders thought that there — you know, that what they needed to be doing was sort of softening the edges of the party, you know, appealing to women and Hispanics and young people.

  Donald Trump sensed that what would win this primary race was exactly the opposite.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  So, here we are now. He's sewn it up. All day long, I think, we have been watching a parade of Republicans, conservatives either saying never Donald Trump, they're not going to go with him, Susan, or some of them gradually falling in line.

  How serious opposition — is the opposition that he faces in his own party?

• SUSAN PAGE:

  I think the opposition is not serious in terms of getting the nomination. I think that battle is over, and he is now the face of the Republican Party.

  But you do see some fervent supporters, most of them not really elected senior Republicans, mostly in the electorate. You see a couple of people saying they won't vote for him. But you know the favorite line of the Republicans who are running for the Senate this year is that I'm going to summit the nominee, without saying Donald Trump's name.

  Now, this is a distinction that I think Democratic ad makers, Democratic opponents aren't going to recognize. But it's an effort to not break with the party, and yet not get too close to Donald Trump, because while he succeeded in winning this nomination, he is at odds with the kind of coalition that we think you need to have to actually win the presidency.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Karen, you actually interviewed Donald Trump last night as the results from Indiana were coming in. What are the challenges that he faces now heading into this general election?

• KAREN TUMULTY:

  Well, I think that the challenges are going to be presenting himself to an electorate that goes beyond the most fervent conservative — most fervent grassroots Republicans.

  It is going to be transforming himself into something and somebody who the broader swathe of the electorate can actually imagine in the Oval Office. The other thing, and what he told me in the interview, he has decided that what he has to do is make Hillary Clinton unacceptable to them.

  And he plans to do that, he told me, not by focusing on her ideas and what she would do for the country, but rather her past, that he thinks that that is a lot of fertile territory.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  And, Susan, how does she counter~ that? She said in an interview today on CNN she views him as a loose cannon. She used that term over and over again. What are we looking at?

• SUSAN PAGE:

  So, we're looking at two candidates who are each going to spend their time talking about the how terrible the other one is, right?

  This is what I think you do in an election where both candidates have negative ratings of above 50 percent. There's limits to how much they can persuade people that they're the optimistic candidate of the future they ought to embrace. But they need to make the case that the other guy is simply unacceptable, so Donald Trump talking about Hillary Clinton that way.

  Hillary Clinton describing Donald Trump as not an acceptable commander in chief, I think that's a particular theme we're going to see her hit over and over again, and someone who doesn't have the temperament you need to be president.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  But, meantime, Karen, Hillary Clinton still faces a challenger in her own party. Bernie Sanders, as we know, won the Indiana primary. He's likely or expected to win some of the primaries coming up between now and the convention.

  How much of — how does that affect Hillary Clinton's path from now until the convention in Philadelphia?

• KAREN TUMULTY:

  You know, it probably doesn't affect her chances of winning the nomination.

  What it could affect — and this ball is very much in Bernie Sanders' court — what it could affect is how enthusiastic Bernie Sanders' supporters are about supporting her, about turning up and voting for her in the fall. And this is a choice as — you know, the Clinton campaign has said but it's a real choice as to, you know, what kind of tone he takes for the remainder of the primary, whether it's talking about his ideas and how he wants to shape the Democratic agenda or whether it is beating up on the most likely nominee.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  How do you see that Democratic contest, Susan?

• SUSAN PAGE:

  Well, you know, I think it's a constant reminder of some of Hillary Clinton's weaknesses to have Bernie Sanders not only out there running, but beating her in primaries, as he did last night.

  And it prevents her from doing what we traditionally see candidates do, which is move a little bit to the middle after securing their party's nomination. She is, I think, not able to do that. She needs to stay — she's been pulled a little bit to the left, tugged to left by him, particularly, say, on the issue of trade.

  It's going to keep her there. And that's a battle that I think we will see fought out over the platform when you come to the Democratic Convention in July.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  But, meantime, Karen, still, so much attention on Donald Trump and what he has been able to pull off and what he needs to do.

  From your conversation with him, what kind of sense did you get of how he sees his own challenge in the next months — in the months to come?

• KAREN TUMULTY:

  You know, he — he sounded pretty happy with the kind of campaign he has run, and seems to believe that he can continue to do that.

  I think, however, that a general election campaign is going to require a different kind of campaign operation. A lot of people are worried that he may not have the — because he's been self-funding, he may not have the fund-raising capacity that he will need to go into what one — one — Stuart Stevens, Mitt Romney's former strategist, described to me as a billion-dollar buzz saw that the Democrats are preparing for him.

  Trump points out, well, they have spent all this money already in the Republican primary, and it didn't do a thing to me.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Well, just quickly, Susan, a lot of people think, well, he is a billionaire. He can pay his own way.

  But it's not that simple.

• SUSAN PAGE:

  It's not.

  And look at how carefully the Clinton people are pursuing this. You know where Hillary Clinton was last night? She was in Ohio. That is going to be a swing state. They are already laying the groundwork there.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  Susan Page, Karen Tumulty, we thank you both.

• SUSAN PAGE:

  Thank you.

• KAREN TUMULTY:

  Thank you.

• JUDY WOODRUFF:

  And there's more to come. We will be back a little later in the program to talk with Trump-rival-turned-supporter Dr. Ben Carson.