How Carl Nassib’s coming out may be a starting point to alter ‘macho’ NFL attitudes

Judy Woodruff:

It may be surprising to realize in 2021 that Carl Nassib's decision to come out yesterday makes him the first active player in the NFL's history to do so.

But, as Amna Nawaz tells us, that tells us something about what some athletes have faced until now.

Amna Nawaz:

Judy, other NFL players have come out before, but after they retired or left the game.

Some years ago, draft pick Michael Sam announced he was gay before he made the team, but was cut at the end of training camp. Carl Nassib, however, is a five-year veteran defensive lineman of the league. He plays for the Las Vegas Raiders.

Here is part of how he chose to let people know yesterday on Instagram.

Carl Nassib, Las Vegas Raiders:

I just want to take a quick moment to say that I'm gay. I have been meaning to do this for a while now.

But I finally feel comfortable enough to get it off my chest. I just think that representation and visibility are so important. I actually hope that, like, one day, videos like this and the whole coming out process are just not necessary.

Amna Nawaz:

Let's talk about the significance of what Nassib has done and what others have faced.

L.Z. Granderson is a sports columnist with The Los Angeles Times, a contributor to ESPN, and the host of a podcast on ABC called "Life Out Loud."

L.Z., welcome back to the "NewsHour." And thanks for being here.

I just got to ask, right off the bat, you heard Carl Nassib's message, what was your reaction?

L.Z. Granderson, ESPN:

I started crying.

You know, I have been telling everyone I was working out. I was getting ready to host my show. And I was getting a good workout in beforehand. I was changing the song on my phone. And I saw the bulletin.

I did a quick search to make sure that it wasn't like a joke or that he wasn't being hacked or something like that. And once I confirmed the accuracy, I wept for about 15 to 20 minutes, just standing there crying.

Amna Nawaz:

Why do you think you had such a strong reaction to that message?

L.Z. Granderson:

Oh, that's what humans are supposed to do when their dreams come true. You know, you're supposed to be joyous. And I was expressing tears of joy.

You know, I related to a lot of how people felt seeing Vice President Kamala Harris, for those of us who have been fighting in the space in terms of dealing with sexism or with racism and seeing the election of President Barack Obama. For those of us who have been in this area, this intersection of sports and sexual orientation and politics, we have all been waiting for this man to come out in the big four sports.

And it happened yesterday. And so I wept because my dreams came true.

Amna Nawaz:

We have to mention Michael Sam, who we referenced in the introduction.

It was just seven years ago. It was the highly anticipated draft pick. Didn't end up having a career there and went very, very late in the draft, as I remember too. And when he left, he said there was too much of a mental health burden coming out and trying to have an NFL career in that way.

Would we have Carl Nassib today if we hadn't had Michael Sam seven years ago?

L.Z. Granderson:

You know, it's hard to tell.

You know, everyone likes to use the phrase we stand on the shoulders of giants, but we're not all standing on the same shoulders. So, we don't know if it was Michael Sam that created the space that made Carl feel better. We don't know if it was a figure in sports. It might have been in a different walk of life, and he just felt compelled to come out because of that individual from a different walk of life.

We don't know if he stumbled across Dave Kopay's book from the 1970s. Dave Kopay is, I believe, the first NFL player to come out in retirement and announce that he was gay. He did so in his book.

So, without talking to him, we don't actually really know which path he — that led him to this particular space.

But to your larger point, which is, it takes a lot of tiny steps in order for us to get down the road to equality.

Amna Nawaz:

There are others, as you mentioned, NFL players who've come out after retirement.

Jeff Rohrer is among them. He played with the Dallas Cowboys in the '80s. We had a chance actually to connect with him earlier today to ask him about his reaction. And here's what he had to say.

Jeffrey Rohrer, Former NFL Player:

I thought it was amazingly well-said and spoken. It was very compelling.

Being the first active player to actually come out and the NFL is a huge step for — for all of America, actually, because it's a very, very macho sport. And he is helping tear down a wall that's been there for the — for the history of the NFL.

Amna Nawaz:

So, L.Z., Jeff Rohrer is calling it, of course, a very, very macho sport. He's saying Nassib is tearing down a wall.

Do you agree with that?

L.Z. Granderson:

Well, I think the construction of that wall and the tearing down of that wall is still a work in progress, because, remember, this is the off-season.

And so we still need to go through training camp. We still need to go through the regular season. He still needs to go on the road, play games. He still needs to be part of games in which the Raiders lose, and fans may be responding to that loss in a different way.

So, I'm not trying to downplay the importance of this. What I'm trying to do is put it in context, that this was an announcement that was very important. As I expressed, I was very emotional. But I also know that beyond just getting through the door is staying in the building.

And so now we have to help him, be supportive, so that he stays there, now that he's opened the door and says that he's here,

Amna Nawaz:

L.Z., when you look at the rest of the country and where we are, LGBT identification is up in America. The latest polling has it as a new high of 5.6 percent of all American adults.

When you compare that to where attitudes are in the sports world in particular, where are they? How do you compare the two?

L.Z. Granderson:

Well, it depends on which gender you are referring to. And it also depends on which sport you're talking about.

I mean, I'm not trying to split hairs and duck the question, but the reality is that we tend to be way more accepting of women who come out than men. And we expect men in certain sports to be straight more so than in other sports.

If a — to use a stereotype, if a figure skater were to come out, I don't think we would have the same sort of response as we would if an NBA or an NFL player would have come out.

So, it still is on a case-by-case basis, which kind of lets you know a little bit in terms of how varied the acceptance may be within the world of sports, and also how misogyny plays into the overall conversation of homophobia and transphobia.

Amna Nawaz:

As you mentioned, there's an uncertain road ahead. We don't know what's going to happen next.

But what do you think the impact of Carl Nassib's message is on the NFL and the broader male sports world?

L.Z. Granderson:

Well, first of all, he's got me cheering for the Raiders for the first time in my life.

(LAUGHTER)

L.Z. Granderson:

So, if anything, he's converted one person.

(LAUGHTER)

L.Z. Granderson:

But I think what it certainly does is that, when you juxtapose his coming out to the more than 250 anti-LGBTQ bills that have been introduced on the state level in this year alone, what you are realizing is that this fight for equality is far from over.

I'm extremely happy that Carl has come out. I'm really hopeful and prayerful that more NFL players join him if they feel comfortable doing that, but by no means should this be misconstrued as some sort of watershed moment and now we can move on. This is another step in a long journey.

Amna Nawaz:

That is L.Z. Granderson of ESPN, The L.A. Times, and host of the podcast "Life Out Loud."

Thanks so much, L.Z. Always good to see you.

L.Z. Granderson:

You too, Amna.