Investigation looks into lack of opportunities for Black NFL coaches

Nick Schifrin:

This past weekend, the NFL playoffs get under way, but for Black coaches last week brought negative news and once again tough questions about the league's record when it comes to who is hired to be a head coach.

Lisa Desjardins has the story.

Lisa Desjardins:

Nick, the Houston Texans fired head coach Lovie Smith last week after a three-win and 13-loss season that many saw as a rebuilding year.

That leaves just two full-time Black head coaches out of the 32 spots in the NFL. One other interim coach is Black, this in a league where nearly 60 percent of the players are Black. That gap has been an issue for decades. Back in 2003, the NFL adopted what's known as the Rooney Rule to ensure teams interviewed at least one minority candidate for every open head coach job.

Here's what that recently fired coach, Lovie Smith, told The Washington Post last summer about being a Black head coach.

Lovie Smith, Former Head Coach, Houston Texans:

And there was pressure to win, and you really wanted to, but you knew it was a lot bigger than that. If you didn't win, you're going to stop progress, you're going to knock us back a little bit.

And that's pressure that I still feel. We get a shorter period of time to prove exactly who we are.

Lisa Desjardins:

The Washington Post has chronicled this problem in detailed in a series called "Blackout."

Michael Lee is part of the Post team that worked on that and joins me now.

Michael, my first question is, why is this not only a continued problem, but it seems this is a problem that is actually getting worse in the NFL right now?

Michael Lee, The Washington Post:

Yes, it definitely is getting worse.

Lovie Smith was — as you just said, was fired after one season. And the guy came after, David Culley, was given one season as well. In the last — since 2018, five Black coaches have been fired and — I mean, have been hired, and three have been fired after just one season.

And I think that's a problem that really needs to be addressed. The NFL is doing all it can, but one of the issues is with ownership. And they haven't been willing to provide opportunities for Black coaches. And it is getting worse. And there doesn't appear to be anything that can change it, other than the owners having a change of heart.

Lisa Desjardins:

Let's talk about that issue with NFL owners for a second.

This is not a diverse group. In fact, there's never been a majority owner of an NFL team that's been Black, very few nonwhite owners of any sort. Can this problem change at all? You're saying — it sounds like no, unless the owners change. How does that happen?

Michael Lee:

Well, I think one thing we have to look at, as we look at the history of the Rooney Rule, which came in place in 2003, that was brought about through the threat of litigation. Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran threatened to sue the NFL in order to change their policies, because, at the time, Tony Dungy was the only — or he had just been fired.

And Herm Edwards was the only Black coach left in the NFL. And so, 20 years later, you wind up with the same cycle. But, this time, you actually have a court case with Brian Flores suing the NFL. You had a litigant. You had someone who was willing to put his career on the line and force change through the courts.

And I think that's the one thing that changes the climate right now for the NFL, because they have been put on alert to say that there is a serious problem. And I think the owners have to be the ones to make the decision.

Lisa Desjardins:

We know that Flores lawsuit you have mentioned is working its way through the courts still.

This isn't just about hiring, but it also seems to be about firing as well. You mentioned that idea that coaches — in recent years, coaches who have been fired after just one year, half of them have been Black. And here is something that you talked to another former head coach about from The Washington Post.

This is Romeo Crennel, what he said about that.

Romeo Crennel, Former NFL Head Coach:

I think, sometimes, the minority may not be given as much leeway as a white counterpart.

Now, in saying that, I mean, I think if a white guy was a head coach, and he was doing a bad job, he gets fired too. If you're doing, let's say, an above-average job, all right, sometimes, a white guy may be given another game, where a Black guy might be let go.

Lisa Desjardins:

What are your findings about the role of race vs. the role of team records in firing an NFL?

Michael Lee:

Well, Black coaches are most likely to be fired after having success than a white coach.

If you are a Black coach who wins nine games, you're just as likely to be fired as a white coach who won six games. And you're also going to be the first one to be dismissed in quicker — in quicker order, in short order.

There was some progress there around 2011, where there were 10 coaches, seven full-time and three interims. And it appeared that the NFL was moving in the right direction. But, in the last decade, things have progressed to the point where now, again, you have a lawsuit in place.

But you also have coaches who are expressing their frustration, because there's a — there's a pool of talent that's available, if owners are willing to actually hire them. And it's interesting to see where this lawsuit goes, because that appears to be the only way to get someone to move.

Otherwise, we will — there will just be a lot of complaints and frustration from guys who are qualified who continue to see the goalposts move.

Lisa Desjardins:

Preparing for this segment — and I am a big football fan — one number popped out at me that I was surprised by.

Of the 100 most watched broadcasts last year in the U.S., 82 of them were NFL games. That's staggering. We're talking about billions of billions of dollars. This is a huge part of life in America.

So I want to wrap this up and ask you, what do you think is at stake here in this discussion for the United States, for the culture in terms of who the NFL chooses to elevate?

Michael Lee:

Well, like I mentioned earlier, Cyrus Mehri, one of the attorneys who threatened to sue the NFL 20 years ago, he always said, if you could change football, you could change America.

And I think that says a lot about the power and influence that the game has on the entire country. If owners were willing to provide opportunities for minorities and actually put them in leadership positions, it might change the way people around the world see that representation.

It may open up corporate America, Fortune 500 companies to see leaders in those positions. I mean, you look at just what happened on the field, it took a long time for quarterbacks to get — Black quarterbacks to get opportunities. But now the game is so much more exciting when you have a Patrick Mahomes kind of freestyling and throwing sidearm passes and in doing so many exciting things.

I think one of the things that Black coaches, whatever level they're on, they just want an opportunity, the same opportunity that white coaches are given. There's no proof that a white coach is any better or worse than a Black coach. The opportunities, though, for them are much better.

And that has to change, because there's no reason why we continue to have this conversation. And there's no reason why that can't change, until the owners decide that they want to make that change. And there has to be pressure somehow. And it's either going to come through financial pressure, lawsuits or something of that magnitude.

But fans themselves, they're never going to break from the game. They love it too much. It would just be better if — for the game if they provided opportunities to more people.

Lisa Desjardins:

Big game, big season, and a big topic.

Michael Lee of The Washington Post, thank you so much.

Michael Lee:

Thank you for having me on.