'American Pope' traces Leo's journey from Chicago to the Vatican

Geoff Bennett:

When Robert Prevost stepped onto the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica last year as Pope Leo XIV, he made history as the first American to lead the Catholic Church.

But the path that brought him there stretched from Chicago's South Side to decades of missionary work in Peru, and ultimately to the highest ranks of the Vatican.

The new book "American Pope" traces that unlikely journey and offers a fuller portrait of the man behind the papacy. Its authors are Scott Detrow, host of NPR's "All Things Considered," and Daniel Burke, NPR senior editor of religion and spirituality.

I recently spoke with them.

Scott Detrow, Daniel Burke, welcome to the "News Hour."

Scott Detrow, Co-Author, "American Pope: Leo XIV's Road from the South Side of Chicago to Vatican City": Thanks for having us.

Daniel Burke, Co-Author, "American Pope: Leo XIV's Road from the South Side of Chicago to Vatican City": Great to be here.

Geoff Bennett:

And, Scott, you were in Rome during the conclave when Robert Prevost's name first came up, and you had actually circled his name in your notebook at the time. What did you know about him then and what did you realize you didn't know about him when he became the pope?

Scott Detrow:

Not that much at first, and I think I wasn't alone. Several people in Rome were saying, like, you got to think about Robert Prevost, and then you would say, the American? That's a nonstarter.

And everyone said, yes, yes, yes, but he -- for somebody from the United States, there was this assumption that the church wouldn't want to give that much power to an American, especially going back -- this is the first few months of the Trump administration, where President Trump is putting all these policies in place that are kind of shaking up the world order.

And that seemed to just double down on this given in Catholic Church history that the United States for the last couple hundred years is the most powerful country in the world. You wouldn't want to make a pope an American.

But the fact was, this guy who grows up in Chicago, this Midwesterner, becomes over the last two years one of Pope Francis' allies. They're meeting for hours at a time on Saturday mornings. In retrospect, Pope Francis was kind of taking Robert Prevost to pope school.

And he subtly -- because I think if he had done it too bluntly, it would have backfired. He's kind of subtly pointing to his allies who he knows are going to choose the next pope and saying, this is the guy that I'm entrusting. This is the guy who you should really consider.

And despite the fact that he is an American, he goes into the conclave and all of the other cardinals start talking to each other and they realize, this is the path forward for our church.

Geoff Bennett:

And Prevost, Pope Leo, grew up, obviously, in Chicago, attended Villanova, in many ways purely American story, but so much of his adult life was informed by living in Peru.

Daniel Burke:

That's right.

He goes to Peru in his early 30s. It was kind of a surprise to him. He had thought about missionary life a little bit as a teenager in high school, but he was on the path to elevate him in Rome. He was studying in one of the most prestigious universities. He was studying canon law.

But there was a car accident, and they needed a canon lawyer very quickly. And so his order, the Order of Saint Augustine, sent him down there. He didn't quite take to it first. He gets to Chulucanas, which is in northwest Peru, where El Nino had just swept through. houses were dissolved in mud.

Farm fields were lying in water. And so he really gets there and he says, lord, where have you taken me? And it just looks like complete devastation. He winds up not only loving Peru, but going back twice. So it was a really, really important part of his ministry.

It's -- he says it's where he learned to be a priest.

Geoff Bennett:

Yes.

You mentioned Pope Francis. And he, of course, was a much more public disruptive figure. And there's a cardinal who gives you this great comparison. He says: "Francis was a bulldozer clearing the road. Leo is a leveler, quietly smoothing it."

What does that tell us about the difference between those two men and where Leo might ultimately take the church?

Scott Detrow:

That was that was Cardinal Pedro Barreto who told us that. He's a Peruvian cardinal, and he told us that. That interview was toward the end of our reporting process, and he said that, and it just crystallized to us. Like, yes, that is the difference in their style. This is the perfect way to think about these two men.

Because Francis and Leo have a lot of the same goals. They both care deeply about the issue of immigrants and what's going on right now with global politics and the way that leaders talk about immigrants. That's a deep concern to both of them. They both want to create a church that is a lot more open-minded and group consensus is an important part of the process.

They don't like the idea of the pope dictating from on high, which is the way it's run for a couple thousand years. But they go about it much more differently. And I think that's also a reason why Leo was elected, because he's a lot more of a methodical leader. He's a lot more of a calculating person.

He is thinking eight to 10 to 20 steps ahead. He is thinking years down the line. And a lot of conservative cardinals who were in the conclave who kind of wanted a stylistic break from Francis, they looked at Robert Prevost, and even though he was a close ally of Francis, they realized he would run the church a lot differently, and that's something that we can get behind as well.

Geoff Bennett:

And there has been this effort to fit the pope into familiar political categories. Is he a moderate? Is he a progressive? Based on your reporting, how useful are those labels, if at all, in understanding who he really is?

Daniel Burke:

Yes, not very.

We talked to a number of priests in Peru who knew him really well. He was very careful about getting involved in Peruvian politics, which can be even more chaotic than American politics, if you can believe that. But this priest told us that everyone wants to know, is Roberto Prevost, is he a liberal or is he conservative?

And he says he's neither. He follows the signs of the time. He follows Jesus. And so we kept seeing this time and time again where he would address issues, like making sure that people had infrastructure, running water, roofs over their heads. But he would not align with any particular political party. He was very, very careful.

He wouldn't attend that many political marches or rallies and things like that. We see that now. He will talk about an issue, the Iran war or artificial intelligence. He won't go after particular people, which is another difference from Francis. Francis was very pointed in his critiques, if you remember.

Robert Prevost, Pope Leo XIV, is much more I would say, kind of peaceful, serene about the way he attacks these kind of global issues. He doesn't go after people personally in that way.

Geoff Bennett:

The book frames the clergy's sexual abuse crisis as one of the defining upheavals that he faced through on his path to becoming pope. What did you find out about how he handled allegations that fell to him during that period?

Daniel Burke:

Yes. So, in 2001 and 2002, he is the leader of the Augustinian Order, and so cases of priests who were accused of abuse came to his desk. To that point, he hadn't had a lot of experience dealing with abuse cases. He had been in Peru and in Rome, where it wasn't seen as big an issue as it truly was.

And so priests told me he was a little slow on the uptake, to be honest. There were priests that needed to be removed from office rather immediately, and he took his time to think about it. That's also kind of characteristic of his leadership. But once he understood the issue, he came back, the priest was defrocked, and he really kind of understood what he needed to do.

Geoff Bennett:

You have interviewed more than 100 people. You have dug through archives. You have read through letters and e-mails that hadn't been seen publicly. Was there something that really changed your understanding of Pope Leo and who he is and where he came from?

Scott Detrow:

Daniel was the one who dug it up, and we were talking about it. There's this moment that it doesn't really seem like a big deal in terms of the issues on his plate now, but he was -- he had just taken charge of the Midwest Augustinians.

He's back in Chicago for the first time in decades. And he had spent the last decade in Peru dealing with life-or-death issues, and he's dealing with this challenge where one of the priests in the community has broken one of their vows by purchasing a house.

And all the other friars are really mad about this, understandably. And we found the letters that he was sending, and the way that he's sorting through all these complicated things and personal dynamics. And he sends this letter saying, look, here's how I'm going to deal with this. A lot of you aren't going to be happy, but here's why I'm making the solution.

He's going to keep the house, but the deed is going to come back to our order, and, again, just like day-to-day stuff, but I think, like, you see in really large-scale issues and small-bore issues, the way that he approaches things, his leadership style is that he listens. He is a big listener. He is often the last person to talk in a meeting if he talks at all.

And he really, deeply wants to know what everybody's take is, what everybody's view is, and he takes it into consideration. A lot of the times, the answer, just like in that case, the answer that he gives is not what everybody wants to hear, but he keeps people on board with his vision and his approach because of the way that he's intently listening at all times.

And we're seeing that now on a global stage with him as pope. And I think it's a leadership style a lot of people get behind.

Geoff Bennett:

Scott Detrow and Daniel Burke, the book "American Pope: Leo XIV's Road from the South Side of Chicago to Vatican City."

Great to speak with you both.

Daniel Burke:

Thank you.

Scott Detrow:

Thanks so much.