How Ashton Carter differs from Obama’s past defense secretaries

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Now: President Obama announces a change of command at the Defense Department, as the military faces multiple challenges abroad.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA:

Today, I'm pleased to announce my nominee to be our next secretary of defense, Mr. Ash Carter.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

The president's event in the Roosevelt Room at the White House confirmed what was widely expected. He's chosen Ash Carter to succeed Chuck Hagel at the Pentagon.

BARACK OBAMA:

With a record of service that has spanned more than 30 years as a public servant, as an adviser, as a scholar, Ash is rightly regarded as one of our nation's foremost national security leaders.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Carter is a Pentagon veteran, although he's never served in the military himself. He was deputy secretary from October 2011 to December 2013, and, before that, the technology and weapons-buying chief.

ASHTON CARTER, Secretary of Defense Designate: It's an honor and a privilege for me to be nominated for the position of secretary of defense.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

The honor brings with it a host of major challenges, including the battle against Islamic State fighters in Iraq and Syria, winding down the U.S. mission in Afghanistan, the ongoing conflict in Eastern Ukraine, and the resulting struggle with Russia, and deep budget cuts straining the Defense Department.

There's also the question of working with the White House. Two previous secretaries, Robert Gates and Leon Panetta, accused Obama aides of micromanagement. And Hagel reportedly complained of a lack of influence.

But Carter made clear he means to have his say.

ASHTON CARTER:

If confirmed in this job, I pledge to you my most candid strategic advice. And I pledge also that you will receive equally candid military advice.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Republicans will control the Senate that considers Carter's nomination. Today, they generally praised his qualifications, but Arizona Senator John McCain warned that he, too, may have limited sway at the White House.

We explore all this now with retired Brigadier General David McGinnis. He was a senior Defense Department official during President Obama's first term. And David Rothkopf, CEO and editor of "Foreign Policy." He has a new book, "National Insecurity: American Leadership in an Age of Fear."

And we welcome you both to the program.

DAVID MCGINNIS, Former Defense Department Official:

Thanks.

DAVID ROTHKOPF, Foreign Policy:

Thank you.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

So, David Rothkopf, let me start with you. What do you make of Ash Carter as the president's choice to be his fourth secretary of defense?

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Well, Ash Carter is a great choice. He's a smart guy. He's very decisive. He will be candid with the president. He has a lot of experience. He's brilliant.

But he's just one man. Leon Panetta, Bob Gates, they were excellent choices also as secretary of defense. And as you noted in your piece at the beginning, they had real problems with this White House. There haven't been changes in the White House, so I'm not sure why we would expect a change in outcomes.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

And I do want to get to that.

But, first, General McGinnis, what's your take on Ash Carter?

DAVID MCGINNIS:

He's solid.

He's well — well-prepared for this job. He's been at this business, as the president mentioned, for two decades. I have seen him work in the Clinton administration. and I worked with him in the Obama administration. He's probably much more qualified for the job than his two predecessors were.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Well, how do you think he's going to manage the Pentagon? What should we know about that?

DAVID MCGINNIS:

Well, he understands the dynamics of the Pentagon better than his two predecessors do.

And there's a critical component in getting the president the answers he needs, the options he needs to get the job done to make the right decisions as commander in chief. And I think he's in a much better position to do that — than his two predecessors were.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

How do you see, David Rothkopf, his ability — how has his managing the Pentagon, his understanding of the Pentagon, how he's seen by officials of the Pentagon, how is all that different from his predecessors?

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Well, I mean, he was deputy secretary for some time. He was the head of procurement there. He's had several stints within the Pentagon. He knows the military brass, he knows the bureaucracy. He understands how to make it work. He has been effective in making it work in the past.

And that is quite different from the folks that preceded him there in this administration.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

But you don't believe — you still believe that he's going to have difficulty getting done what he believes should be done because of the White House?

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Well, look, you read the Gates or you read the Panetta book, you see the frustrations. You saw the frustrations in the end of Hagel's term in office.

I think the problem is this. First of all, the White House does micromanage. The White House does tend to a top-down style that has alienated some of its Cabinet. But, secondly, it's seeking to pursue a course in a place like Syria and Iraq that is full of ambivalence and halfway measures. And he's going to have military brass at his back saying, that's no way to fight a war.

And sooner or later, when he makes with the White House, they're either going to go along, which would be a big change, or they're not, and he's going to feel like a shock absorber and he's going to feel the kind of pressures that ultimately did in Hagel.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

General McGinnis, how do you see him handling it, en — when the military is wanting one thing and the White House something else?

DAVID MCGINNIS:

Well, that's part of the challenge.

The military is happening today just as they have operated for the last 40, 50 years. They're operating at a two-dimensional geographic environment that they believe — you have heard a lot of discussion about troops on the ground, boots on the ground. We need to put people on the ground to control things.

The reality is that these conflicts are being dealt with in other environments, information environment, the human environment. That's how ISIS was so successful in managing the human environment and managing the information environment months before — before they moved.

And the Pentagon doesn't know how to do that. And one of the challenges Ash is going to have is to get the Pentagon to provide the president realistic objectives in these environments and capabilities to operate in those environments, and that hasn't been happening. And I think the president has been very frustrated because of that over the years.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Why do you think he is going to be able to get it, when — again, when the people who preceded him didn't?

DAVID MCGINNIS:

He's an innovative guy. He understands the process. He understands all the capabilities of the Department of Defense, not just the individual constrained, the capabilities of each service.

Each service is constrained by its own culture and they won't go outside that culture. And to be successful in these new environments we're dealing with, services are going to have to come together in the jointness that Goldwater-Nichols pretended and never occurred. And that's what is going to have to happen.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

David Rothkopf, what about that? You hear the general making these points that it's — that Ash Carter brings skills and knowledge that the folks who came before him didn't have.

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Well, he does.

I think the best hope we have got is that this is the fourth secretary of defense for this president, that this is the sixth year in office for this president, that he's learned, and that he's also facing a lot of pressure, that he's going to have to learn how to work better with his cabinet and work better with his military.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

What do you mean facing pressure?

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Well, there's been a lot of criticism from the outside that the president of the United States has not been responsive to his Cabinet. There have been articles about alienation. A lot of people have left.

And it wasn't just Panetta and Gates who wrote the books. There was some of it in Hillary Clinton's book, some of it in Vali Nasr's book, some of it in articles and so forth. And so there's some sense that a change in the way the national security system is needed — with the way it operates is needed.

There hasn't been a lot of evidence that that change has taken place. But one can remain hopeful.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Do you think there will be a change in the way the National Security Council operates?

DAVID MCGINNIS:

No, I think the National Security Council will continue to operate the way it's been operating.

I think one of the frustrations and one of the reasons for the view of micromanagement has been the — that the president has not been getting the input that he wanted from the Pentagon, and the National Security Council has been filling that gap. And that's been a big gap.

I mean, we can go back to the start of the — how to determine how to get — how to deal with Afghanistan. And, Judy, that took six, eight weeks just to get meetings, just to get the president satisfied. We can't have a defense establishment that operates that way and support its commander in chief that way.

And so I think the change has to be in the Pentagon, and that's where we disagree, rather than — rather than the White House.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Well, we hear it, and it's all beginning to unfold. We will watch. First, he has to get confirmed and then we will watch closely.

General David McGinnis and David Rothkopf, we thank you both.

DAVID ROTHKOPF:

Thank you.

DAVID MCGINNIS:

You're welcome.